To be glad that the Down Syndrome abortion appeal was defeated

[Fififafa]

A woman with DS has twice tried and failed to get the courts to outlaw abortion beyond 24 weeks for foetuses with DS. Under current legislation for England, Wales and Scotland, there is a 24-week time limit for abortion, unless "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome.
I read that she has is being supported by some religious group.

I’m glad that the appeal was lost. This is a personal decision that every woman has the choice and the right to make. What Heidi Crowter et al are doing, is fighting to remove that choice from women. AIBU?

For those saying that people who would abort a disabled baby shouldn't have one, what is your stance on poverty, or mental illness?

I was raised by a mum with severe mental health issues. She was unable to offer me normal, loving care. I work in a sector which looks after adults who grew up in poverty, and their lives are lacking a lot.

Since all these are a question of quality of life, do you think that people shouldn't have babies if they are poor or mentally ill? Since these things can also strike at any time.

@CoastalWave you are factually wrong because under UK law, foetuses don't have personhood. For which we may be truly thankful, because personhood laws land women who have miscarriages in jail.

Protest to change the law if you want. I'll meet you on the barricades.

its not about not wanting a baby. For example someone very close to me at the 20 week scan found out the baby would be born in pain and die within minutes. The condition didn’t show at the 12 week scan. So a medical termination was the only choice.

Strange how it's a foetus when aborted, but if that same 'foetus' was born, it's most definitely a baby .

because, and i really don't know how you don't understand this: It isn't a baby until it's born.

it isn't murder.

You forced birthers are so bloody sanctimonious. Put a sock in it, nobody is forcing you to have an abortion.

@CoastalWave

You've presumably read the posts on this thread from women who had to make heartbreaking late term decisions and have still posted such utter vitriol.

I hope your posts are removed and I hope you are banned.

I am pro choice but really I don't know why pro choice people peddle this. All of a sudden it's as if something magical happens when it's born, and then it suddenly has all these rights

It is killing a baby. Come on now - but I 100% agree with being able to make that choice as late as necessary. Any woman can choose any reason

I also think it’s to do with the fact when you only have one or two children, you’re acutely aware that they will hold a greater responsibility for their siblings when you pass away. I know a boy (well, young man now!) with DS, he has 5 siblings and I envisage they will all share responsibility for him in future (they’re a close family) which is nice. But if it was only 1 sibling? That’s quite a responsibility to hand over.

And some people don't want to actually think about the reality of having a baby who will die shortly after birth and who will spend those few hours in horrific pain....why would anybody want any child (let alone their own), to have to go through that? What the hell is wrong with you that you would rather a baby suffers before death rather than let it go peacefully?

@CoastalWave I can use the word baby to talk about abortion if you like. The scientific term is foetus though but whatever.

Babies born at 24 weeks in the vast majority do not survive. A baby born at that age is likely very sick and the body is expelling that sick baby.

I am pro choice but really I don't know why pro choice people peddle this. All of a sudden it's as if something magical happens when it's born, and then it suddenly has all these rights

because it's a baby when it's born. Sorry, i've been assuming all the posters here are speaking English as their mother tongue. Sorry - perhaps you need to learn some vocab?

As for the "perhaps they should watch videos"? fuck that shit.
If you eat meat you should watch slaughterhouse videos. You should watch the devastation in the jungle to get palm oil if you even consider buying a pack of biscuits. Got a diamond engagement ring? you should have to look into the eyes of those who died and were tortured for blood diamonds.

Get a grip. It's not a baby. It's a foetus. And even if it was a baby? if it hasn't been born it's not murder it's a termination. And it may be devastating for all involved. But that is their right.

I am so sorry you had this experience 💐

A quarter of women in Britain have an abortion. It is not a rare act. The most common time is as a teenager and at menopause.

Your comment shows your absolute ignorance. My friend had an abnormality show up at her 20 week scan (21 weeks by the time she got the appointment) and it meant the baby would not be compatible with life. She had to make the heartbreaking decision to abort at that stage. It was hideous. Abortion at that late stage is giving birth. It was a tragic tragic loss to them.

My child has a disability. Shall I get rid of him now? Or should I have just opted to do it whilst he was in my womb just in case?

You piss off!

I'm only saying 6 months is generally long enough to make that decision. Really struggling to see why another needs the full 9 months in any circumstance.

Sorry meant to tag @CoastalWave to the above.

Nobody is asking you to get rid of him. They are saying you don't get to tell other women what to do.

so, @CoastalWave you have a disabled child? do you think that gives you a moral authority over anyone else?
clue: it doesn't.

You make your decisions, and other women will make theirs.

I hope you have enough help, resources and time away from caring responsibilites, it can be difficult looking after children at the best of times.

You liar. You've said more than once on this thread that women shouldn't have been allowed abortions at 14 and 16 weeks. You very clearly want abortion made illegal in all circumstances, even when that means a foetus/baby/whatever the fuck you want to call it will suffer in immense pain for months, die an agonising death soon after birth, and a woman will have to continue that pregnancy knowing that will be the outcome.

And you call yourself compassionate?

@CoastalWave ok so you know how hard it is to raise a disabled child. If diagnosed before birth YOU had the choice to continue or not and YOU made that choice based on your circumstances.

But YOU want to deny other women that choice ...

Abortion should be available at any time, for any reason (or no reason).

As a woman in Ireland I am reading this thread with interest. We have only recently legislated for termination but only in limited circumstances- up to 12 weeks that also must include a wait time of three days. When I found I was pregnant I did genetic testing to detect DS and some other conditions and the horrific wait for the results because the results were coming in at 11+2 and I knew I would be out of time for a termination.

I knew I wouldn’t want to continue with a pregnancy in the event of a DS diagnosis as there is no real support here past school age (even getting basic SLT and appropriate school places is difficult) and my husband and I and any potential siblings would be life long carers. I have quite extensive experience in this area and I knew I just would not cope.

It’s such a personal choice, I’m still so saddened that here we are so limited and women continue to travel to the UK even in the event of fatal abnormalities.

Anyway just some perspective from your nearby neighbours.

@CoastalWave - why can't you see that your emotional feeling isn't the basis for a law designed to protect women. That is what it is for and always has been.

You hope I'm banned? That's kind. Last time I checked, people are entitled to their own opinions.

There will always be exceptions and sadly, always heartbreaking stories. I haven't read the full thread - I'm working and really don't have time. I've posted a couple of posts.

I've lost a baby myself (and yes, she was a baby although according to all the pro abortion people on here I only lost a foetus - go figure that one) at 17 weeks. Utterly traumatic. I also have a disabled child.

Do I think women should just be allowed to abort right up to 9 months? No. I don't.

I’m assuming that this is personal for Heidi and the woman who has a child with DS, however I believe that they are being manipulated by the people and groups around them.

You can't understand that someone else would make a different choice to you?

How would you like it if I said I personally wouldn't carry a disabled child to term, so I brought a case and forced all pregnant women with disabled foetuses to abort?