To want my autistic DC to start reception in mainstream?

[Ambern7]

DC gets on well at mainstream nursery but is developmentally behind peers. I am not happy with the special needs provisions in our area so have opted for mainstream with good support in place through EHCP, which we fought hard for.
However, professionals involved keep asking me if we are sure we don’t want to go with the special provisions, they have listed lots of things they think are great about the school, however I don’t think the facilities will benefit my DC personally.
These unwanted opinions have got me second guessing something I was so sure of previously. I just don’t see the problem of starting off in mainstream and seeing how it goes, AIBU?

Thing is, an EHCP can be as watertight as you like but you can't force people to apply for jobs as LSAs. Most schools I know have about 1 LSA to every 6 children with full time 1:1 provision detailed in their EHCP. No one applies when vacancies are advertised. Particularly at secondary.

If the EHCP is watertight you can force the LA to fund the 1:1 at a much higher level to attract applicants.

If a child has 1-1 in their plan school are legally obliged to find someone. To the point before now Ds has had the senco supporting him for a short time when nobody else was available

Reality check: your DC will obviously need a 1-2-1 TA to cope in a mainstream setting. That doesn't guarantee you someone with any specialist training or that they won't struggle to find AND keep one. TA pay has fallen so far behind other types of jobs, that many are quitting state schools and going to work in Tesco, etc. If you are being offered a specialist school and have specialists quietly pushing for it, you might want to really consider their input.

That doesn't guarantee you someone with any specialist training

If the EHCP is written correctly the qualifications, training and experience can be written in to section F.

TA pay has fallen so far behind other types of jobs

With a watertight EHCP you can force the LA to fund the 1:1 at a higher rate if need be.

Yes, my daughter has 2 x 1-2-1s. All training specified in her plan. Funded appropriately.

I'm happy to chat OP as a mum 3 years down the line. It absolutely hasn't been sunshine and flowers but I stand by my decision.

They can say it's a legal requirement as much as they like, but if the school can't recruit, they can't recruit. Even if they were offering higher pay. it's still shite.

I'd look closer to home if a school is thst unable to recruit as to why. My DD's school have zero issues recruiting, you can tell its a lovely school and one that is good to work within. One I go in frequently down the road can not recruit at all, the whole town knows exactly what goes on in the school and its fairly obvious why no one wants to go near.

it's still shite.

It doesn’t have to be. If the LA need to fund it at a much higher rate, that’s what they have to do. I know a pupil in another LA whose full time 1:1 is funded at a level of the main pay scale for teachers because that is what is required to fulfil their legal obligation.

LAs have to ensure the pupil has 1:1 if it is specified and quantified. It’s it isn’t provided parents can begin enforcement action.

I'd look closer to home if a school is thst unable to recruit as to why. My DD's school have zero issues recruiting

I'm really surprised to hear this. Our school is a lovely caring, kind and popular school, but we're still struggling to recruit. Especially middays and LSA, as to put it bluntly the job is hard work and the pay is shit. 😔

I know several people with autistic children, who thought they would put them in mainstream because they coped ok with nursery and they didn't like the idea of specialist provision.

Every single one of those kids in in special school now. Many after years of issues which will take ages to undo.

You don't mention your child's needs in much detail but I would say if the following apply, mainstream just won't work:

• they are non verbal, pre verbal or only copying words and sounds
• they can't use the toilet independently
• they can't make meaningful marks such as a straight line or a circle
• they can't focus on a task with 1-1 attention for more than 5 mins
• they can't focus in a group setting at all

There will be exceptions, but generally kids with needs that high need specialised staff, who have experience and training of working with children like them, and very low staff:student ratios.

It sounds like your child could benefit from the above.

I’m a SENCo in a one form entry mainstream primary with a higher than average number of children with EHCPs (various needs: ASD, Down Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy) and I can, from experience, say that it is nigh on impossible to transfer to a specialist provision because the children are deemed to be ‘coping’ with us. They’re surviving, are kept safe and are loved but they are not thriving due to the environment not being geared up to meet their needs. We do our very best every day but could never offer what specialist settings can in terms of everything that is available there eg SALT, OT etc.
I’m trying to organise a transfer for a little boy in Y3 with complex needs (Down Syndrome, ASD, multiple health issues, non verbal and still in nappies) and am getting nowhere. If he doesn’t deserve a specialist place, I don’t know who does. His parents wanted to try him in mainstream but are regretting it now.

I think I’d really like to ask the teachers/SENCOs/TAs recommending SS to PLEASE, spend some time at the schools you recommend. For parents I’d say find out where the children go after SS and what they have achieved. Ask what the staff turnover is like and how many children move rather than age out of the school. Ask for the qualifications of the staff. I find it really difficult knowing what to say on these threads because perhaps our experience wasn’t typical and perhaps it works well for some. Our happiest years were ms primary with full time 1:1. Our darkest at the SS which took huge effort to access.

I did my own research and found a school that suits my son. It sounds like you were failed by people who should've had your back, and I'm sorry that happened.

Obviously therapies aren’t embedded in to the whole curriculum like they are in many SS but it is possible to receive therapies in MS. DS3 has direct therapy from OT, SALT, physio and clinical psychologist.

Precisely

Some children have high support needs; I did a work practical when I was training for my job, in a special school and the children I worked wth would have floundered in a mainsteam school and they were 8-9 years old with Intellectual Disability.

DC is preverbal but can do the rest of your points.
Granted a smaller class setting would be better than larger.
So you may see the difficulty in making that choice.

This is precisely why I enforced my daughter's right to mainstream.

All our specialist schools within 90 minutes are quite small categories of children

• Behavioural with extreme behaviour
• Autism but unable to access a normal curriculum
• PMLD

For children who don't fit precisely into the demographic of each school their needs just aren't met and none of the specialists were able to offer the flexibility that her mainstream could. Yes, we had to ensure they are funded to train staff correctly. Yes, we have to bring in SALT and OT. Yes, she has long term out reach support. But she is thriving. I was not prepared to put her in a behavioural school so her learning needs could be met nor put her in an autism school so her autistic needs could be met. Provision for capable autistic children just doesn't exist. She also has a speech disorder and neither specialist the LA wanted wanted her to have actual SALT therapist input as they "imbed into the curriculum rather than pull them out" but her disorder is very specific and needs very specific support.

My youngest also has an EHCP, also in the same mainstream. Started school with 1-1 too. Not toilet trained and has obvious needs but also is thriving.

@Foxymoxy68 it really is sad to hear stories like that. I hope you manage to find a specialist place for him.

As I said earlier in the thread, having taught fir many years in mainstream with at least one child with a diagnosis of autism in every class, ime the successful mainstream placements have been those where the child’s academic needs fall within the ‘normal’ spread for the class, find the sensory load of a classroom environment tolerable and they are well -supported for needs arising from their ASD. The least successful have been those where the child cannot access the normal curriculum in academic terms and/or displays extreme behaviour when in the classroom environment, often through being overwhelmed.

From the op, i understood that their child was on the autistic spectrum and had significant learning needs, which ime tends to mean mainstream placements are less successful, especially post-Reception.

@Ambern7 many parents who have children with ehcp's haven't had the fight as early as you have. Having a well written ehcp is partially dependent on the reports that have contributed to it. We're the professionals commissioned to give advice independent or la/ nhs? I ask because there is usually a difference in the standard of the content of the report. They should have given their recommendations in regards to class size, training required by the the TA and teacher, how often any strategies are to be used, if on site slt/ot is required, if any equipment is needed eg specialist seating, sensory rooms, if wide corridors, carpeted floors etc are required, what peer group he needs.

The professionals should have either assessed with standardised tests or stated why they couldn't.

You mention that he is pre verbal, has the slt introduced any form of aac? The school will need to have slt over see this and his ta and teacher etc will need to be trained. Likewise with ot for any sensory needs that may crop up.

Mainstream primary can work but you really do need to make sure section f is not only tight but that all needs are in b and provision to meet them is in f.

(If provision is specified, quantified and detailed in section f so that there is no doubt as what must be provided it can be enforced via Jr in the child's name. Usually a pre action letter is enough to get the la to put things in place).

You can choose an out of area school if you prefer also and please do not limit your choice to la maintained schools.

Don't assume your child will have 1:1 support as stipulated in your ehcp. I hardly know the 1:1 in my class (I'm suppose to spend over 20hrs a week with them!) I don't. I spend it with another child who has no ehcp. But there is no choice!

I don't mean to sound negative or alarmist, but please be prepared for nursery and school not to be the same. Or rather, go down the same way with your daughter.
I worked closely with an autistic child during his nursery/P1 (Scotland) transition. He had felt no real anxiety in nursery, and so his behaviour was generally good. However it all kicked off in P1 and until I came to work with him, his behaviour was totally unmanageable. It's no surprise really. He was overwhelmed, overstimulated and anxious.
Your wee one may well be fine! And I really hope that is the case. But it could be different, at least if she doesn't have adequate support in place for starting.
Good luck

This might be a boring read, but I thought I'd give a more detailed picture of how a passive child fares Vs a more 'active child'.

DD1: Started preschool at 2½. After a few weeks, I was approached to ask if DD1 could be assessed by an inclusion coordinator. The IC immediately authorised 1:1 support as DD1 was delayed in all areas, had no concentration span (<30 seconds) and no sense of danger. At 4, she got her Statement (old version of EHCP) and offered special school. Now in year 12 in special college.

DD2: Started preschool at 2½. Any 'behaviours' were seen as copying DD1. ASD traits raised by me, but dismissed as 'schemas of learning' by staff. Started school. Year R went well, although DD2 was told off for just 'doing' things without telling staff.

Year 1 was disastrous - too many changes. DD2 fell apart and we changed her school. New school was great until she went in to year 2 - fell apart again. Eventually withdrew her and did HE for a term.

Year 3 in 2nd new school. Mixed year classes. Year 3&4 went ok. Fell apart again in year 5. Referred for ASD assessment, finally.

Year 7 -dx with ASD. Limped through year 7. Year 8&9 - Covid lockdown.

Year 10 - fell apart and eventually refused school altogether. EHCP applied for and granted. Finally offered place in independent specialist school in year 11, and allowed to decelerate into year 10.

I had been raising her needs since she was 3 years old. 12 years of fighting. Children who don't cause problems are seen as having no problems.

If the 1:1 is specified and quantified in F the school are acting unlawfully. The parents need to know so they can enforce the provision.