I’d want to do the same - mother kills children’s abuser

[HermioneKipper]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sarah-sands-kill-sex-abuse-paedophile-b2231508.html

i think any parent would do the same if given the chance

What level of proof would you want before you were willing to kill someone? If your child says to you, "X person did this to me". Is that enough? Because I'm not in any way saying that a lot of accusations are false, or confused, but surely everyone would accept that not every accusation is totally accurate. The point of having a court system and police and prosecutors and juries is to objectively examine the evidence, rather than you as the family member of the victim jumping to perfectly reasonable emotion-driven conclusions.

If a 5 year old says their teacher touched them inappropriately at school, is that it boom go get a knife and confront them after class.

^I think the fact that she watched him bleed out without phoning for the emergency services made a murder charge inevitable, tbh.
You see, if she did it today, you could probably phone 999 straight away knowing an ambulance would take an hour.^

There are numerous cases where men have murdered their wives in horrific ways- stabbed them or hit them with a hammer, where they were only found guilty of manslaughter, not murder. There was also one guy who threw a vat of chip fat over his wife, she died slowly and painfully, and he was not convicted of manslaughter or murder. Historically women have been less successful in getting juries to accept their partial defences and have been more likely to be found guilty of murder - even when they acted in the heat of the moment. So, yes, she may well be convicted of murder, but I do hope the jury will only find her guilty of manslaughter.

@givemushypeasachance fucking hell, I’d believe my child 100% and I’d hope anyone would

‘ok darling, let’s leave it to the courts to decide if you were abused or not’

wtf is wrong with you?!

Plus there were three sons, all giving the same story - why would you not believe them?

Wanting to kill someone and really going through with it are two very different things. This is a highly unusual case as almost no-one does. There is a similar case running in Russia currently about a dad whose best friend abused his daughter so he killed him. Again, highly unusual. It's not easy to kill someone in a pre-meditated way, I don't know why so many on here reckon they could, I would want to but don't know if I could go through with it.

If I was going to do it I wouldn’t kill. Id chop off much valued body parts. Less time in jail. More effective.

I think it’s a layered situation, of course murder is wrong, but this is a pretty extreme circumstance. I’d like to think I would never murder anyone, but if this has happened to my kid after, especially
by a known pedophile who was able to evade the register by way of a simple name change I could well see how utterly failed by justice those boys were. I couldn’t promise similar thoughts would go through my mind.

Given all of that if I’d been a juror on that case there is NO way I’d let that woman see the inside of a jail cell for it. That’s not to say I condone murder, but this is very much one of those edge cases whereby I think her conviction is an injustice also.

There was enough evidence to show the mother her 3 children were being honest about him sexually abusing them. He was a nonce and had been for many years and got away with it. He would have raped many children. Someone like him doesn't deserve to breath air. His death is not a loss, the world is better off and children are safer.

Well, the only vigilante I know did time for his violence and went on to threaten me (completely unrelated, he's just violent, nothing admirable).

He was not a higher power and acted on base instincts, the impulse for thuggery isn't gone.

It's different in this case as the perpetrator was nearby and it was the mother of the victims. So I can understand her actions but not condone.

@FOJN no, I couldn't pick a groomer out of a line up. But what I could do and would do - is not leave my 3 young children alone with a new male 'friend'

I used to be of the mind that the justice system will sort these pedos out with lengthy jail sentences. But having seen cases of men who have done horrible things to children, and will continue to with zero shame, get released with just a few years or months or even time served, I cannot fault this mother for her actions.

There’s currently a campaign in Australia showing the terrible trauma that minor sexual assault victims go through in the legal process. Putting them through all that just to not get a conviction because the victim was too young to give an account, or to just get a slap on the wrist, it’s like the justice system’s own form of child abuse.

My comments weren't so much based on this particular case and all the boys seemingly saying the same thing, but everyone saying "yes I would do the same". But in every situation? You would be happy to kill someone else, based solely on your child telling you that person did something, would you want some sort of corroborative evidence?

When you were a child did you never make up stupid stories, maybe try to get out of trouble by claiming someone else did something? Have you never been accused of doing something you didn't do? Have you never had a relative or friend accused of doing something you know they didn't do, couldn't have done? Even if that only happens in 1% of cases - well that's someone who has been murdered on the basis of a lie, and the parent then has to live with the guilt of killing someone for no reason.

@givemushypeasachance you obviously have never been in a serious situation where your child's accusations has to stand against that of an adult.

I can reassure you, as a parent you know if your child, you know if the accusations are true or false and yet the adults word is given more wight ... and this poor woman had all of her children reporting the same abuse from the same abuser.

This is what made me think not only did she save her sons from further trauma but all those who were still to become victims the law let(s) everyone down .

Absolutely!
She set out to threaten him to prevent her children having to stand up in court and give evidence against him.
She was trying to protect her kids from more trauma by telling him to plead guilty instead but he called her kids liars and that tipped her over the edge.
She's a hero in my book

Hmm, well I think if my child says ‘x raped me’ and then it turns out that X has committed child sexual abuse crimes many many times, then I go to the police and they bail him to over the road and he says my child lied… in that case I’d believe my child.

Bit like if my child said ‘granny kicked the cat’ I’d look into what happened in case they were fibbing, but if they said ‘that cat kicking man up the road kicked the cat’ I’d probably think they had a point.

@ChocChipOwl one thing that has become apparent is that paedophiles seek out situations in which being with young people appears natural, so sports teacher/leader, voluntary groups so the usual flags don't go up. The worst thing, in addition to the abuse, is that it makes us suspicious of everyone. How horrible to be a lonely older man and not be able to make friends with the family next door because everyone will think you are a paedo, or not be able to sit in the park in case people think you are watching the kids. Makes everyone lonelier, their effect on society is so destructive and why far more severe/effective punishment (such as their removal from society, 24 convictions!) is important

I don’t doubt you that a shit-ton of stuff is covered up. It just seemed like a strange idea that introducing the death penalty would change that.

Rather than wishing for capital punishment to be reinstated, which will never happen, pressure groups should be campaigning for no bail to be granted to suspected paedophiles along with life sentences (that actually last a lifetime) for convicted ones. There needs to be a massive reform of the way these offenders are dealt with.

@Ylvamoon no I haven't, but I have worked in a field adjacent to child safeguarding investigations, and have encountered situations where parents "know their children wouldn't lie" and 100% KNOW the allegations MUST be true. When it has been physically impossible for things to have happened in the way described.

Anyone who has read about the 'Satanic Panic' phase of the 90s, and some cases that continue on today (e.g. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32357195), must appreciate the need for objective investigation and not taking everything alleged as the gospel truth. By no means victim-blaming, and if an allegation is raised it must be investigated, but don't bloody kill people based on the initial accusation!

I have very moderate views about prison, rehabilitation etc.

The one exception is paedophiles. I 100% believe in the death sentence for paedophiles. There is no value in that person being alive. And if it acts as a deterrent for other paedophiles, all the better.

I certainly don't judge her for what she did. Seems totally reasonable and I think that any parent would be tempted.

However, I don't think it was a "good" choice. She's wasted all of those years of her children's life in prison.

What level of proof would you want before you were willing to kill someone? If your child says to you, "X person did this to me". Is that enough?

Yes! Kids don’t go around discussing sexual behaviour with adults as some made up fantasy you know. If my child told me it happened, it happened.

Have you worked in any cases where a prolific child abuser was randomly accused of child sexual abuse they hadn’t committed?

Because that’s what happened here. There’s no grey area. The man was a know pedophile accused of child sexual crimes. The chances of these children getting together and working up a lie that happened to sync up with the fact that he was a pedophile are minute, and it’s an insult to even suggest it.

That link isn't working for me. I hope you aren't referring to the Cleveland Scandal.

So she’s to blame for the sexual abuse her sons suffered?

Fucking hell.