Kids still feeling the effects of lockdowns…

[sloanedanger]

I just got caught reading a really interesting thread on Twitter started by a teacher:

“Is anyone else thinking we are starting to see the impact of 2 years of disruption and time at home, due to COVID 19, in schools? Extreme behaviours? Some pupils very emotional and struggling to regulate? Low attendance compared to normal? Winter bugs hitting hard?”

A lot of the comments say Y3 is the worst, others saying Years 7 and 8.

My DS is in Year 2 and often struggles with emotions and self regulation at school. It’s made me think, perhaps there’s a reason why linked to the pandemic. Lockdown was hard, DP and I were home with very young DC, trying to work, poor mental health, emotions high. Very little patience.

It's almost refreshing to see this, after being shouted down on here for so long

Yes there were more Covid deaths in Sweden than Finland but not a lot more, besides if we are using the population density counter argument then you could argue it was because Finland has a lower population density than Sweden.

If we look at Estonia which is the next country with the closest in population density to Sweden we can see that their excess deaths associated with Covid were more than double that of Sweden's.

It was bonkers like many other bonkers SNP half though out ideas.

my personal favourite was the proposal to saw 6 inches off the bottom of fire doors for ventilation.

@EmmaAgain22 Yep!

www.hsj.co.uk/patient-safety/covid-infections-caught-in-hospital-rise-by-a-third-in-one-week/7029211.article

Check out the date. The day before Boris announced that we couldnt see family at Christmas.

Unfortunately, I have learned there is a big chunk of ‘blame the parents’ whenever negative impacts from lockdown are mentioned. I think that even now the romantic ideal of families cuddling up together to pull through the difficult time prevails.

@MarshaBradyo Sorry to sound pedantic but that was lockdown 3 November 2020 was Lockdown 2

@Walkaround

I agree that we should look at where do we go from here.

Firstly I would like the £13 to £15 billion of extra funding into schools that was identified as necessary for children to recover the educational impact from Covid.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57335558.amp

Secondly I recognise (as Liz Truss failed to) that there isn't the money there to do this without cuts elsewhere because so much (£450 billion) was spent on Covid measures.

Thirdly where this cuts should be is always problematic as one section of society always believes they should take priority over others. Ultimately politicians decide by which section of society will be most likely to vote and vote for them. Children because they can't vote always lose out in favour of those that can and are more likely to vote.

Shame on those “ professionals “ who campaigned so vociferously on here for closures. Hang your heads in utter shame. I hope you will be held to account

I wasn't using the population density as a counter argument. My post was in response to another post stating that there weren't more covid cases in Finland vs. Sweden in 2020. There probably were as there were a lot more covid deaths in Sweden per head of population during that time.

The main problems in school are happening because despite the children missing big chunks of learning, the targets they're supposed to reach have remained the same, as if it never happened. So you have all these children who have understandably fallen behind a little (in some cases a lot) yet teachers are under enormous pressure to get them to meet age related expectations with no leeway whatsoever from school management/LEA/OFSTED. Therefore the kids and the teachers feel like they're constantly failing trying to reach unachievable targets. This in turn affects behaviour.

Y3 have definitely been the worst hit in primary in my experience.

So many open mouth and spout nonsense SNP moments. People will look back and laugh.

How long, really, was pre-school cancelled for? If it was only for a couple of months, I don't think the impact would be "profound". Children learn self-care and playing in the vicinity of others at pre-school. The concept alone only became more common in the last thirty years or so. As for toddler and mother and baby groups, these are great, but not essential for everyone, and the socialisation they provide can be found elsewhere. (Siblings/cousins/neighbours/at the park.) And of course, the children themselves won't know they have missed out on this apparently crucial step - unless parents harp on it. Babies and toddlers, in the main, won't experience any lasting profound effects from missing nursery/preschool for a few months.

@Delatron

I have seen in real life and on here many who thought they were ‘vulnerable’ to Covid caught it and were fine. Including FIL who hid himself away claiming he would die if he caught it then had a mild cold with it. Sadly his health deteriorated significantly due to him being too scared to even go for a walk outside. Such fear mongering.

It is a bit of a lottery, though. Ive written about my ECV sibling on here who currently has Covid, and is not doing well. He just doesn't have an immune system at all. He's had one round of anti-virals, but the Covid has come back even worse. He's trying another round, but I just don't know.

And then my FIL, also with cancer, who was very ill for a day or two but then picked up well with anti-virals. (They're a miracle.)

Please don't call it fear-mongering.

Well said. Wish we had upvotes on MN if only for this post.

Ah that takes me back @MeetPi . All preschool children needed was a puddlesuit. Twelve hours a day could be spent jumping in puddles. Toddler groups, preschool or nursery, farms, soft play - all an indulgence and they didn’t have them fifty years ago (yes, actually they did.)

It is true a child doesn’t ‘need’ a session at a toddler class, but speech in particular (and with it, social skills) do need some integration. To give some examples, part of it is the ability to watch lips move, observe facial expressions, have chances to observe reciprocal speech interaction - screens can never replace that and a child won't learn language from a screen. It's this really complex process which relies largely on a multitude and a variety of human interactions. Toddler groups aren’t all of that but they are part of that.

I was probably fine as I only had one baby, but I do recognise that WFH with other kids was going to make one on one nursery rhyme singing a bit difficult. Then you take away the groups, the shopping trips, the visits to family, the school run, and you replace that with one walk a day then back home, like the start of lockdown. Then you factor in confidence - a child who has been encouraged to "give the man in the shop the money and say thank you" is going to gain confidence in actually using speech. So it's not something you could pin on one thing - the shops, the groups, the lack of visits to granny - it's the cumulative effect of everything going at once, over a long chunk of vital time in their development.

Parent blame is a new thing and it isn’t limited to on here. I think people get defensive. I do remember at the start of lockdown how surreal and dystopian it all seemed and how frightening it was.

What was wrong was shutting the playgrounds, and keeping them shut. It was wrong that pubs went back before schools. The bubble system was absolute insanity. The key worker list was wrong and unfair.

The impact of lockdowns on those who were babies and very young children at the time is unlikely to be something we'll fully understand for a while.

This is from ROI, and their lockdowns were a bit different to ours, but an interesting read.

adc.bmj.com/content/early/2022/09/19/archdischild-2021-323441

The data is parentally reported, I guess we will have to wait until that cohort are all in school to get more than that. There has been an increase in the UK of school pupils needing SALT support but obviously these children couldn't have been babies in 2020-1.

Sir mentioned SALT increase but for babies isolating mothers (usually) and babies / toddlers will have a negative impact. The extra stress in families due to isolation will have repercussions.

Now I think if it the BMA did report concern re increase in injury as early as July first year. I’m sure this data fed through but imo the second closure (which yes to pp it was third lockdown) was a mistake again. And summer most certainly was hospital graphs were pretty flat.

While it’s very easy to be wise in hindsight I do think that we can learn from it and I think that it is all right to ask questions and to discuss.

Oh fgs. What dramatic language. What on earth do you mean, anyway?

@MeetPi
Scotland Preschools were closed Mar-Aug 2020, Dec-Mar 2021.

Glasgow / Central Scotland Home Visitors weren't allowed Mar 20 - May 21, except about 6-8 weeks in summer 20 and Christmas day.

Softplays were also closed.

So unless people already had a social circle to meet in the park. Young children were very isolated. From both other children and extended family.
Also remember during the lockdowns parents were also work and homeschooling older children.

Children might not know they missed out but that is a huge chunk of development time in Children who are less than 5 years old.

I agree it’s good to ask although some were trying to highlight this before hindsight stage. It’s a shame that it was squashed so vehemently.

Yes, it was.

People weren't "squashed" vehemently at all. There has always been debate about whether school should have shut. I don't think things are any different now.

One thing I’ve noticed is that when posters have got upset about the schools being closed and what their children went through there have been defensive replies along the lines of it not being the fault or the responsibility of the teachers.

That is 100% correct and it is right to point this out.

Equally though how safe or otherwise schools were or are is not the fault of or responsibility of the parents.

Disagree and many have said same on here.