David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

It was on channel 4.

It was a Channel 4 show.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Fat_Gypsy_Weddings

He has apologised multiple times over many years.

’I really don't understand why antisemitism is so deeply rooted that it seems impossible to dislodge’

It’s been around for so long. It’s the warp and weft of Christianity. Jews have been persecuted in Europe for hundreds of years.

I’m Jewish and agree with this though- it does feel that Jewish people have less ability to call the race card - if the Labour Party had been deemed racist or anti BLM, don’t you think the response would have been more fervent? I think it’s in part, because Jewish people are generally quite successful which seems to give them ‘less’ right to say they are being discriminated against.

I think it depends on how much time you spend online and where you live. I live in the Western Isles, which is certainly not a prejudice-free Utopia, but there isn't a visible Jewish community. So anti-Semitism isn't really something that comes up in everyday conversation.
I don't spend much time online outside of my work, because I like a break from it. My social media use is limited to Facebook, and I only interact with close family and friends, plus a couple of groups connected to my hobby. So when I hear of it happening in a blatant way, and of Jewish people living in the same fear that I experienced during the Troubles, it is shocking to me. I think it's even more shocking if it is freely expressed in places that I just don't visit, but it isn't something I have seen myself.(To be clear, I have no doubt that it does happen, but because I limit my internet use, I don't see it).

@RambamThankyouMam

I’m not Jewish or from another minority, although my son is black so I have a bit of a clue about racism.
I have seen other programmes by David Baddiel and found then very thought provoking.
what shocked me most about last nights programme was the security drill that he wasnt able to film.
Its appalling that children have to do this - words fail me

Thanks all PP for the link...I'll watch later, when I can get near the telly

That’s not what he argues. He argues that the left takes antisemitism less seriously because they perceive Jews as having more privilege than other groups.

My experience is that many people on the left do indeed see Jews in this way. They dismiss claims of antisemitism when they wouldn’t dream of dismissing the same claims coming from other groups.

I found it very interesting and informative. I live in Dublin, very small Jewish population and we don't have any security issues with schools. The drill ran in the school was very upsetting.

In my ignorance I would have considered a person who is Jewish of a particular faith - so last night added to my learning that people of the Jewish community are a race and include some of faith some of none.

Interesting to hear from his niece who had a very unique perspective - she described herself as bi-racial Jewish person. I would have liked to have heard more from her perspective as a young person and her experience with her peers.

antelopevalley
It's relevant because the thread is about David Baddiel's opinion on racism/anti semitism and he has not only 'blacked up' for comedic purposes but also said when he's dressed scruffily he looks like a - I won't use the word but it's a very unpleasant slur used for the travelling community. He then suggested that he would likely be thrown out of the shop for looking like one. He's deeply unpleasant and comes across as having quite the superiority complex too.

Is that the schools choice or is there really a great risk?
When i was in Israel all the schools and hospitals had high fences and security guards. I assumed it was due to the risk of Palestinian terrorism.
Which i understood in Israel but never thought it was the same elsewhere.

I'm a non-practicing Jew. As a child I was picked on by a Muslim girl in junior school, for being Jewish. I think I was 7, she had other children calling me names, and I remember her backing me into a corner and shouting at me about Israel. When I was in High School, I was told that I should have been put in a gas chamber, by NF type youths. I was also called a Christ Killer by a RC 'friend'. As an adult, I don't often mention I'm Jewish, it can become uncomfortable to be 'openly' Jewish.

This thread illustrates Jason Lee's take on the situation.

'I often see in the press and online ‘David’s apologised publicly, in writing & in interviews.’ While that may be so, I don’t consider any of those previous instances an apology to me. The apology came recently when David came to meet me personally and apologise directly.'

twitter.com/AbsoluteLeePod/status/1594637553302634496

Baddiel, in the process of making this programme, has only just apologised for doing blackface, racist impersonations of Jason Lee in the 90s

Not sure how that backs up his point about Jews not counting, because this racism against a black man didn’t count for 25 years.

Either way I find this is all a race to the bottom. Plenty of racism against black peoples, Muslims, East Asians during covid has been ignored. People hurl racist abuse at these groups in public all the time. It only results in action if people film it and stick it in social media, often no prosecution but perhaps the worse offenders face some actions at work if their identify is figured out. In this modern age that happens more often because everyone has a phone with a camera

I'm a Jew. I haven't seen the show so I don't want to waffle too much, but there is a very good, thought-provoking essay called "How Did Jews Become
White Folks?" (it looks at American Jews), the title of which often sticks in my mind during discussions like this.

I think it's complicated. Some of the stereotypes about Jews can work in our favour - that we're intelligent / that we value education - but obviously there are plenty of others that are hugely damaging. Slyness, money hoarding, control of the media, down to the mad stuff about blood libel. And I agree with others that it is more complicated because we often "pass" as white. And there is conscious and unconscious bias to think about - it's not all disgruntled people muttering on one corner of the internet.

I run a charity and often apply for grants. One of the routine questions is about whether we are led by someone "BAME". I am technically minority ethnic, as a Jew. But if BAME is being used as a shortcut to capture people/groups who have experienced material disadvantage because of their ethnicity, do I count? It's not straightforward.

A million times? But you're not trying to downplay anti semitism. Or course not 🙄
Any apology for the poster whose kid might get killed at school?

I don’t disagree with what you say and I have Jewish friends who don’t hold with Israels’ actions. But that’s not what this poster was asking. I have seen and heard many instances where Jewish people taking part in TV and online debates on the subject have accused anyone disagreeing with Israels’ point of view as anti semitic. It’s a really difficult issue and I do think some people use it as an excuse for their anti semitism, but I agree, the two are, or should be separate issues.

I am Jewish married to a Christian and we celebrate the big holy days for both religions. Anti semitism is really deep here IMO. But it is acceptable to make casually anti semitic things. Things like the staff member at a previous workplace being called 'a total Jew''jokingly' because they were trying to reduce costs on a big event. No-one apparently turned a hair. Things also like having dinner with a friend and her DH comments 'The people who hate the jews have a point' (That was interesting looking at the faces of my not-obviously Jewish parents).

The synagogue my parents go to also has extensive security. This is not in the UK, but another English speaking western democracy. Not just with the uniformed security guards hired from the security company but from members of the congregation who are trained to provide under cover security.

I have told my Dcs to never mention they have a Jewish background to anyone without knowing who that person is very well indeed. Even friends can surprise you sometimes.

I think there is often low level abuse on a regular basis. I was shocked last year when group of young men actually travelled to North London to abuse Jewish residents. The worst thing is that none has been prosecuted for religious motivated abuse. NOT ONE.It seems that the police force are good for absolutely nothing; they protect no minority, or women or any vulnerable group.

He never made this argument once. Not once. Nor did he infer it. If fact, he derided all discrimination but wondered why Jews were held to a different standard or simple forgotten.

I have Jewish heritage but am blonde and don’t look like what most people would associate with Jewishness. My married surname is not a surname that people would think of as Jewish. I don’t tend to talk about my Jewish background.

I work in the City and can easily think of several instances of antisemitism I’ve personally seen/had repeated to me.

I remember a senior Jewish colleague being very upset about antisemitic comments made by another senior leader (white woman in her 60s). He came into my room and was angry and emotional. I think he felt he couldn’t report it. Nothing was done as far as I’m aware.

A young female Jewish colleague was described to me by another colleague (white, under 30, UMC) as being excessively Jewish. A male colleague in his 50s, white, nodded. Not sure where that was going. At this point I mentioned my own background and she tried to withdraw the comment.

I can think of an instance when an Orthodox Jewish colleague who left early on Fridays was selected for redundancy. She had an arrangement whereby she made the time up on other days. She and another senior male Jewish colleague felt her redundancy was linked to her Friday religious observance.

I have plenty of other examples. These are just the first three that come to mind.

It’s denied (the whole “Jews aren’t a race” thing) and ignored.

I have yet to watch the documentary but I have read the book. I am Jewish but not religious. My mother was a Holocaust refugee (and it was a dirty word even back then) but was proud to be a British citizen.

Personally, I consider being a Jew an ethnicity rather than a race. The amount of anti-Semitism that hides behind anti-Zionism is horrific. I believe in the right of Israel to exist although I disagree with many of the Israeli government's actions, just as I disagree with many of the actions of the British Government.

Why do we have to attach the word ‘privilege’ to everything ? It’s not warranted in this context. He’s simply saying that anti semitism is not challenged in the same way as other racial discrimination - calling into question whether Judaism is considered a race or a religion.

@Whiskyvodka It is a real risk - don't forget that children have been murdered in similar schools by anti-semites in France. (not to mention Jews murdered in kosher supermarkets (again France) and in the Jewish museum in Belgium).

All the Jewish schools have and need to have this kind of security as do the synagogues.