David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

Yy I know. Gypsies, Romas and Travellers are groups that both the left and the right wing feel empowered to be racist against with no expectation of censure or backlash.

Indeed. I think most people find it pretty easy to tell the difference between criticising the Israeli government and being antisemitic. But it's very convenient for antisemites to pretend otherwise, so that they can say it's all our fault and we brought the racism upon ourselves (again! you'd think we'd know better by now!)

I think you can be non Jewish and disagywith Israeli actions. I am and do. But yes you find yourself being very clear that you’re talking about a state, not a people.

It's funny because I'm very critical of, for example, what the Chinese government is doing to the Uighur people, and yet I've never once found myself feeling less sympathetic towards British Chinese people I know who have experienced racism. There would have to be something quite twisted and wrong with me to feel that way.

Nor do I think my Iranian friends deserve to be attacked and have racist graffiti sprayed on their shops because of what their government is doing to protestors.

I haven't seen the documentary yet, but have read the book. I'm baffled by those who argue against Baddiel's whole premise by bringing up the Fantasy Football incident as some kind of Gotcha that negates everything else he's saying. Hypocritical, sure. But wrong? I saw a tweet yesterday from Martin Lewis, describing how yobs on a train were singing 'comedy' songs about gas chambers. There were people in the replies trying to normalise this.
It's not normal and it's not funny.

This. I’ve visited a number of different places of worship, across religions, and the synagogue was the only one where my bag was searched and had to be left in the foyer. I couldn’t take it with me.

Travellers and Romany people experience awful discrimination.
But posting this comment here is like going onto a thread about sexism women experience and talking about the bad things men experience and why do we not talk about them.
It is a derail. Start a thread about discrimination against travellers and romany communities if you really want to discuss this.

Antisemitism is becoming more prominent in public discourse because there are now more avowed adherents of the far left and far right than there used to be.

In particular, younger people on social media seem to have no problem with declaring themselves Communist, even though Communism is an evil, nihilistic ideology that has cause many millions of deaths and untold misery.

Many conspiracy theories e.g. the Great Reset, Covid Conspiracy are linked to the far right; some also have the far left involved too (e.g. Piers Corbyn is a 5G Conspiracy man).

Anti-semitism is a key ideological feature in both far right and far left thinking.

which is why it is more prominent than it used to be.

we should have zero tolerance for political extremism. It is dangerous.

It's the same at many large memorials or museums associated with Jewish people. Anne Frank;s house in Amsterdam had the strictest security i'd ever seen in a museum. When we went to a place in France which had been used as a forced work camp in WW2 for Jewish (and other) prisoners, the security was stronger than at Heathrow.

There are lots of people out there who attack synagogues and other places which are associated with Jewish people.

I am always amazed when people say they have never heard of or seen antisemitism. It is very common. For example during the pandemic there were so many conspiracy theories shared on social media that had antisemitism as part of it.

I remember last year, MN had a long thread about a black female journalist who was called out for blatant antisemitism, and many posters (and the journalist) seemed to find it OK if antisemitism came from a black person.

Only if you see the world through the modern social theory of hierarchies of privilege, and one’s place in the pyramid being of paramount importance, as you clearly do.

It wasn't even just a one off though was it? He blacked up multiple times and mocked him over and over on tv with Frank Skinner. To the point he lost his football career. The man is a bully and a non-apologetic one at that.

According the Baddiel, privilege in the sense that if someone were to be racist towards a black person, then they would be called out and there would be repercussions. According to Baddiel, this wouldn’t happen if someone were antisemitic. The truth is that racism happens towards black people all the time and racists continue to be successful, including himself. Yes it’s the same with antisemites, but it’s untrue and unfair to say that it happens more commonly with antisemitism and that it is accepted by many whereas other forms of discrimination aren’t (as evidenced by other minorities).

I drive through a Jewish area of north Manchester to get to my mechanic a couple of times a year and am also shocked by all the schools with high security protection. What shocks me even more is that local, non-Jewish residents seem to have accepted this as normality, when it shouldn’t be. The Manchester Evening News would have a field day if it was required in a non-Jewish school, but people just seem to accept that “it’s a Jewish school so it needs high gates and cameras and a security guard” rather than analysing why it needs to be there in the first place.

I had no idea that antisemitism was so prevalent, but I don't think I know anyone Jewish so that is probably why. I wouldn't hold any person on the street responsible for what has happened in Israel of course but I also wouldn't agree with any individual who thought that what has happened there is fair or acceptable. I don't understand though why being anti the Israeli government's actions seems to be seen by some as the same as being antisemitic? Surely that's like saying if you hate the Tories then you must hate all English people?

I think the difficulty with antisemitism is that some of us in the UK really don't see it. I live in a town that doesn't have a visible Jewish population, only one of my friends is (non-practicing) Jewish and he doesn't know anyone else outside of his family who is. Whereas there are lots of churches, temples, mosques and faith schools. I've seen and heard plenty of discrimination directed towards other nationalities and religions first hand (the most recent was vandalism of the polish Catholic Church that was only restored a few years ago) but I've never seen or heard anything discriminating against Jewish people in real life. That's not to say I don't think it exists, i know it does but it's just not something I see in my day to day life.

There is such an odd reaction when people talk about their experiences of encountering antisemitism. People's experiences are shouted down in a chorus of whataboutary; by people who in other circumstances campaign for rights and justice for others.

Jeremy Corbyn enabled a culture in the Labour Party that lead to people experiencing the most awful discrimination. The report from the Equality and Human Rights commission was very detailed about multiple failings. www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf

I really don't understand why antisemitism is so deeply rooted that it seems impossible to dislodge; and why; when someone describes their lived experiences they receive a torrent of comments downplaying their experiences by attacking other (perceived) aspects of that persons character.

As an ethnic minority who has experienced racism in my daily life, I personally feel an affinity with other ethnic minorities and the struggles they go through, and would hope they feel the same.

This is why I'm always dismayed when I see minorities attacking each other, I always feel it is worse. E.g. Kanye and the antisemitic row. You would think he understood what it is like and the struggles people face being attacked for your race.

You’re right, racism continues and racists succeed. Not every action is called out and sometimes (often) there are no consequences. That’s not right and addressing it is slow.

but what Baddiel was pointing out were examples of where that (flawed and slow) process of change for racism has either not started, or is a long way behind, for anti semitism.

Disagree. The point is that we don't look BAME but still suffer discrimination. Directly comparable to most Jewish people. I fount it an interesting comparison when watching the programme.

I really don't understand why antisemitism is so deeply rooted that it seems impossible to dislodge

Jews have been routinely discriminated against since the Middle Ages. Probably earlier. Although it ramped up in Eastern Europe in the 1890s, it's not a 20th or 21st century thing. It's as old as the hills and this makes it even harder to break down.

AndEverWhoKnew · Today 13:10

"So it was on Channel 4 ? That bastion of such classic anti-racism programmes as My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding . Yy that makes sense."

My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding was on Ch 5 not Ch 4

See now that's a pretty racist thing to say