David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

@EllaDisenchanted thanks

All fair points.

Well most of the religious ones are moving/have moved to London, which is where the vibrant Jewish life is in the UK - there feels a bit like security in numbers (most Jews I know have deserted Scotland, which I think many feel is more anti-semitic than England, - there is a sizeable community of ex Scottish Jews in London).
Even a lot of the non practicing ones move as well - if they feel culturally Jewish, they feel isolated, and there is more in London. There are some ultra Orthodox Jews in places like Gateshead and Manchester that are communities to themselves and are likely staying. And there may still be the critical mass in Manchester to keep the general community going, but the jury is out on that one. Otherwise, in the UK, it is London or London.

But indeed, we also know people who haven't felt safe even here in London, and have gone to Israel for that reason. London has also recently picked up some French Jews who were feeling even less safe in France (although more difficult since Brexit).

I come from a mixed, multi faith ( including Jewish, RC, Sikh etc ) family and had a lot of Jewish friends at school. Almost none have married other Jews, almost none are practising.

On the other hand none of my RC relations have married other Catholics either or indeed practise anymore.

The only (distant) relations who are 'religious' are those who long ago emigrated to the US.

I have had two bosses make antisemitic comments (one calling Jewish people 'disgusting,' talking about their facial features etc), at my university there was a man outside most days with posters like 'Jews control the media/Jews caused 9/11,' and one of my ex-bosses (who was Jewish) had antisemitic graffiti and vandalism at his house so he had to move for the safety of his kids.

My great grandma died when I was 22 and her whole family died in camps. It really wasn't that long ago.

And still I've seen so many people diminishing people like Kanye West's behavior (one comment was 'with all the Jewish people in positions of power a person is bound to get frustrated and connect the dots'). I hate the victim mentality in any situation and it's not something that affects my daily life in any way but there are definitely anti-Jewish attitudes out there.

From what I read lots of Jewish families have moved to London, others to Israel. Also it said the Jewish community in Manchester is growing.

I grew up within walking distance of the central Synagogue, the shop nextdoor was a Jewish delicatessen and the three local primaries were CofE, RC and Jewish. It was always an area with waves of immigration. I lived in a predominantly Irish community but with lots of Jewish and Polish people as well, I remember other communities arriving e.g. Jamaican, Indian, Pakistani and the previous wave moving to other areas. However this time it seems it is moving to another city rather than another area.

I loved it, the Jewish delicatessen smelt wonderful as did my best friend's mum's Polish shop. West Indian dumpling shops opening, curry restaurants, Asian shops that were open on Sundays! That was a revelation in the late 50s early 60s. The Sikh community opened a Gurdwara in what had been a Christian mission house, oh the excitement when some young bridegroom rode up the road dressed in white and draped in gold riding a white horse. So exciting as we would sit on the wall watching. The site that was bought by the Muslim community for their new Mosque, one of those thermometer signs showing how much they'd raised for the building and then there would be a famine or earth quake in Pakistan and the money would all be sent off and the thermometer would be back to zero.

The Muslim community were equally fascinated when we paraded from school to church for our First Holy Communion with girls in their white dresses and veils and boys in suits. I remember one man saying how awful it was that they were marrying off such young children, we were seven.

For a child in grey England in the 50s it was a wonderful place, I think the adults had a much harder life.

Sorry, didn't mean to write a book. I better go and make dinner.

It sounds wonderful, ancientgran. Maybe you should wrote a book!

write

I’m Jewish, I’ve read Baddiel’s book and I watched the programme.
it was interesting what he said about not feeling white. I’ve always felt white- I’m a British Jew 4th generation. Yes, it’s easy to ‘pass’ and I haven’t experienced anti-Semitic abuse for a long time, but my DCs went to a Jewish secondary - very very tight security and also children being abused racially. Was the same re the latter when I was a child, but no big security then.

I also didn’t agree with him re Israel. Jewish people can’t be responsible for the decisions and policies of Israel’s govt, but even though I haven’t been since I was a teen I definitely feel a connection. Jewish schools and youth groups send teens there on trips etc so it’s very much intertwined with being Jewish.
One can love the country itself but hate the politics. This is where it can get messy! I don’t think there’s a easy answer. Also ‘secular’ Israel is very tolerant of LGBTQ esp in tel Aviv. Can’t really compare to Arab states.
As for him blacking up, so many comedians did similar or took the piss out of minority groups in that era (90s & 00s) - I don’t think he can be held up to a higher standard because he’s Jewish. We all know it’s wrong now though.

The issue with having a genuine discussion about this, is that it ties into a very old historical trope that Jews are rich and have too much power, currently rearing its head as 'Jews control the media' etc.

At a film club i attend, we were discussing a French film which featured a very poor Jewish character and someone mentioned that was 'unusual' as weren't Jews rich. I was at that time reading the book and it really opened my eyes to comments like that. It's the stereotype that Jews are rich, have power etc that then gets fed into dangeous conspiracy theories and eventually violence towards Jews. It's very insidious.

Antisemitism has always been here. It's been around for thousands of years.
Look at the events of Clifford's Tower, York, in the Middle Ages where 150 members of the Jewish community were besieged and ended up committing suicide?
I'm not a Jew but I've been mistaken as one many times - I have a last name that seems culturally Jewish.
Just a couple of years ago I was buying something at my village pet shop and the young man at the till started asking me about ruling the world.
I found it shocking and upsetting, but how much worse would I have felt if I was a Jew?
It disgusts me that so many think it's acceptable.

I saw the programme and to be honest was not shocked at all, nothing surprised me. The blindspot about anti-semitism has existed for a long time.

Some people had to be reminded this year that there was a British Prime Minister with an ethnic minority heritage in the 19th century.

Some people had to be reminded this year that there was a British Prime Minister with an ethnic minority heritage in the 19th century.

Nicola Sturgeon? Astonishing mistake for someone whose life is politics.

I agree with him that we need to keep on our toes for anti semitism. There has been a creeping kind of movement towards a hierarchy of who is most down trodden. Yet it should not be a competitive thing. Religious and racial discrimination is illegal full stop under the Equality Act 2010 even if the victims are whites discriminated against by blacks or jews discriminating against muslims or vice versa. In that sense our law is fair and good. If that does not suit some people then they need to lobby to change the law.

I wish I had the talent but thank you.

Re the poster who commented about the Jewish community being more prone to certain genetic conditions. You might be thinking of the Ashkenazi community (the most common branch found in Europe).

Research has shown there was a genetic “bottleneck” about 600 years ago and that all current Ashkenazi’s are descended from just 350 people.

This means there are a number of genetic conditions, including cystic fibrosis and certain cancers, that are much more common in the community compared to the wider world.

www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2014-09-10/ty-article/.premium/ashkenazim-derive-from-350-people/0000017f-e175-d75c-a7ff-fdfd58830000?_amp=true

I will never understood the hate the left have for Israel. It simply doesn't make any sense as it's by the most liberal, free country in the Middle-East.

David Baddiel's rebrand is something truly miraculous to watch. It's quite bizarre isn't it - apparently Jews don't count yet David who spent the 90s mocking black people for being black has not suffered a single set back in his career. Curious really.... it's almost as though black men who are 7x more likely to be stopped and searched and black women who have a 5x higher death rate during childbirth don't count. David is so disingenuous and offensive that I don't have the words to describe it. He is to antiracism what McDonalds is to health and nutrition.

I have experienced anti semitism as apparantly I looked Jewish enough for a Muslim flatmate at uni to be offended. She complained to the accom officers and got herself moved. I was utterly bemused as am Irish/Anglo Catholic.
Weirdly, when researching our family tree years later, I did discover a Jewish great grandma.

I have no doubt that Jewish people face great discrimination but I can't abide David Baddiel and really wish someone else was fronting his campaign.

No. It just means that people despise vile racists like David Baddiel. Being a minority doesn’t give him or anyone else the excuse to be racist.

Stupid sweeping statement that The Left hate Israel.

It might sound so extreme to white Brits but not the rest of us. Solidarity

thank you xx

Not wrong though. Go to any kind of left-wing event and you'll see Palestinian flags. Despite the avowed aim of the elected Palestinian government to "wipe the state of Israel off the map. That's a direct quote btw.