David Badiel - Jews Don't Count. Shocked

[Everanewbie]

AIBU to be disappointed and upset at the blindspot for antisemitism that was highlighted in last night's excellent documentary? The Leigh Francis part was especially revealing to me. The (quite correct) groveling apologies for the Michael Jackson, Craig David and Mel B characters were a contrast to the defining silence on the David Badiel character.

What is more, the reaction from the left-wing commentators (Owen Jones, et al) on twitter seem to suggest that Badiel says other racism doesn't exist, which feels like a deliberate and willful misrepresentation.

I’ve seen people on MN claim that Islamophobia isn’t racism.

Maybe the parents, maybe not but awful and still makes me shocked to this day. And when I say disturbing I mean, as in that a young child has obviously been indoctrinated so can't blame them..

But I've had worse from people that should know better.
I invited a new friend and her kids around for the afternoon and lunch once.
My Jewishness came up in conversation - she was visibly horrified told me to my face that she didn't like Jews, and so wanted to leave and did leave soon after. Our kids were playing nicely together and she scooped them up and left. Hard to explain to my children, I think I said they weren't feeling well...

Also, important aspect to note (and not sure that David Badiel even touched on this), but while my grandparents etc came from Eastern Europe, so I tick the white box when asked (as no doubt does David Badiel)- when I met my DH, he was also ticking the white box. And I said to him - do you think your parents' neighbours in Egypt or your grandparents' neighbours in Syria or the neighbours of your great-great (however many) grandfather in Iran are ticking the white box? He was the first in his family born in Europe. So he said - well what should I tick? And I have been somewhat baffled by that ever since (and now I get asked to categorise my DC as well).

But people often ignore my DH's community (although it significant and a growing one in the UK) - and completely ignore the fact that the majority of Israeli Jews are actually of a similar background to my DH, not to me. The left wing parties in Israel are the home of the descendents of eastern european Jews, and the reason the right wing parties keep getting in is because their vote is solid in the middle eastern Jewish communities.

BTW further fun fact. My DH's great great whatever grandfather came from Iran to Syria around the time of the French revolution because he was trafficked by slave traders who captured him as a (Jewish) boy in Iran and trafficked him to Syria. There the Jewish community discovered him amongst the slaves for sale and redeemed him. No idea how common that was - just part of the family's oral history. Hence he settled and married into the Syrian Jewish community.

Thanks for all the replies and sorry for not coming back sooner. I know many posters have mentioned David Baddiel's (sorry @PedantScorner for the spelling mistake) past racism. It wasn't and isn't ok, but it was in a different era, and he has apologised. Even if you believe that this isn't enough, surely we play the ball rather than the man? The cricketer Azeem Rafiq was recorded making some terrible comments, but does that make his experiences of racism and discrimination any less shocking?

I really don't think DB is saying that Jews suffer more discrimination, or that it is more important than any other injustice, but that it is often ignored, denied and minimalised by those most vocal "allies" against prejudice.

That maybe the case. But it did not seem to harm David Badiel's career doing a racist blackface parody of Jason Lee.

The issue with having a genuine discussion about this, is that it ties into a very old historical trope that Jews are rich and have too much power, currently rearing its head as 'Jews control the media' etc. So are we actually over-represented, or is it that public Jewish figures are regarded with suspicion? If some are successful, does that negate the experience of others in the community? Is it ok to discriminate against Jews, because we are, allegedly, 'over-represented' anyway?

@LadyKenya that was clearly racist, but I don't see that it makes his point any less valid. If Stormzy outlined a racist incident he'd experienced, would you deny his right and credibility due to his misogynistic and homophobic song lyrics? If you wouldn't, you are kind of proving DB's point, that Jews are held to a higher standard.

Flipping heck! What a nasty specimen - you had a lucky escape there, I’d have booted her arse out the door!

He has in print in various outlets. He hadn't apologised in person to the people he had impersonated before, however,
. But he had definitely apologised publicly previously.

The weird thing was that I'd always wondered if she was Jewish herself - we looked very alike and I was kind of probing a little bit with her by mentioning that I was Jewish, half expecting her to say that she was...whoops, misjudged that one!... but at least I knew where I stood. She would I presume never have said what she said in a group situation.
That's why people don't think anti-semitism is as rampant as it is...because it's often "cleverly" done...out of earshot of others or nowadays rebranded as a dislike of Zionists...

The bit where he was talking with Sarah Silverman annoyed me. She was saying Jewish actresses don't get leading roles, and I kept waiting for them to at least mention the likes of Scarlett Johannsen and Gal Gadot to explain why they are exceptions and they didn't.

I was totally open to the argument, but that made me think they were cherrypicking the evidence, and then I started to wonder how much else of what he was saying was the result of confirmation bias. Overall I still think the point he's making is valid and important, but I'd be more convinced if it was a bit less polemical.

I never said that it makes his point less valid. I was in fact replying to another poster that Kanye West career has indeed been harmed, because of what he said. The same cannot be said about David Badiel. Yes I know different times, and all that.

Even if badeil apologised for his blackface jokes, surely it should exclude him from making a documentary about racism? I really don't think he is the man who should've won the commission to make this programme

I've heard anti-Semitism on the Left. A colleague at a top London higher education institution had a problem with me going for lunch with a friend who is a rabbi. The colleague in question lacks nuance in her thinking. The rabbi in question happens not to be pro-Israel.

I think he has a need to be a part of an oppressed group, born of rampant narcism. How dare anyone be more oppressed than him?

I think the opposite of that is true. I think he is absolutely furious that he is part of an oppressed group.

Don't forget winona ryder!

A bit off topic but I looked up the Jewish school in my old city and the children are now predominantly Muslim but sing in Hebrew and study the Jewish religion. It is a state school and happens to now be in an area with a high Muslim population and most of the Jewish families have left.

Hope for the future?

In terms of Jews being, in quite a few cases, better off and more materially successful than many people of other communities, isn’t this one of the charges often (unjustifiably) levelled at minority groups by the prejudiced - “They take our jobs/the best houses/even our potential husbands or wives”. Therefore it does not seem to
me to demonstrate that Jews di
not suffer from discrimination.

Also, on the subject of security measures, some years ago I attended a classical concert at a
major London venue given by
artists from Israel. There were security guards and, I think, bag searches of audience members. The reason for this was that, on a previous appearance by the same group, a group of white Palestine supporters had caused a disturbance during the performance. To the best of my
knowledge none of these performances had ever taken any kind of anti-Palestine action or stance; They were just musicians doing their job who happened to be Israeli.

Don't forget Winona Ryder!

They did mention Winona Ryder in passing - they pointed she'd had to change her name to something less Jewish sounding, which is a good point! And to be fair you could say similar about SJ - Johannssen is not a stereotypically Jewish surname. But you can't say it about Gal Gadot. Oh, and I just also remembered Natalie Portman and Mila Kunis! That section wasn't at all convincing, and I was quite ready to be convinced!

Don't forget winona ryder!

Or Natalie Portman or Jennifer Connelly or Mayim Bialik or Goldie Hawn or Alicia Silverstone.

I read the book and found it very thought provoking and eye opening. I was very grateful to have read it, in fact.

I don’t agree at all that Baddiel is saying other minorities have more privilege, that’s to fundamentally misunderstand the point of the book. It’s more that he’s saying that many people think antisemitism doesn’t matter, or is somehow a lesser form of discrimination. Many people think of Jews as being privileged themselves, and so therefore discrimination against them “doesn’t count”. The book sets out very clearly and intelligently (in my opinion ) why that’s not the case.

Well - while it is great that there are Muslims (and others) studying about the Jewish religion in a positive way - it is not that great that the Jewish community in that city had to die for that to happen. I personally would rather a vibrant, alive Jewish community. But it is true, most of the Jewish communities outside of London (and perhaps Manchester) are dying, and the old schools and synagogues are little more than museums.

Fellow Jew here! - I went to a Jewish school in a Northern city from Reception-Year 13 (wonder if its the same one!) and along with practicing the fire drill, we had to practice a bomb alarm drill too. Along with all the security etc. Unfortunately normal for us but it must sound so extreme to non-Jews. I work in a CofE school and there is nothing of the sort apart from staff lanyards.

@amcha @ancientgran where are the Jewish families going? Are they just becoming non-practicing or leaving the country?

A mix of reasons - If they become more orthodox, they usually move to the cities with bigger orthodox communities. Others who are not religious, or less traditionally observant than their parents, move away as they don't go to synagogue, or send to jewish schools, so don't need the community infrastructure. There are a number who have emigrated abroad as well.