To think this is the embodiment of miserable fuckers

[Scrooooooooge]

Something they want

something they need

something to wear

something to read

I mean - how bloody joyless is that bloody thing?

Honestly why on earth do you care what people you don't know on the interweb do?!!

This is what 99% of Mumsnet is though.

Same here, that’s why I made the ‘surprises’ category. He hasn’t asked for posca pens but I know he’ll adore them and be thrilled so I’ve gotten some, last year it was marble run which was an unexpected success. He plays with it every week still 😂

My kid's "need" presents this year are a new bike (old one outgrown), and a musical instrument they are about to start lessons for at their request (can't do the lessons without it so they need it).

Surely it's all about interpretation of the principle. Agree that nobody should be getting school uniform as a Christmas present but that's not how the principle of limiting the number of big presents and making them thoughtful and wanted and useful has to be interpreted. And as I said above, for small fun things like board games, small lego kits, craft materials or whatever there are stockings.

Are shoes the only thing they need? Really? They don't need new books to read? They don't need new colouring markers or sketch pencils? They don't need a new laptop?

My child has specifically asked for this lol

You're right op, I said the same on another thread. It's shit

Sorry that should be kids' not kid's: thereare two of them so one is getting a bike and one a musical instrument as their "need".

Nobody said it had to be a pair of pants. 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️

Want: soft toy dog, need: bigger scooter, wear: sequin handbag, read: mag subscription.

Majority of youngest's list right there. It can be so flexible. I don't do it but I'm feeling quite inspired by it. As long as I can buy audiobook subscription for dyslexic eldest for 'read' (and yes I can because it's guidance and noone's forcing me to do anything.)

I can see it would be good for some people but I couldn't imagine getting my kids just 4 presents at Christmas.

I agree. You want toys when you're little at Christmas.

How many posters have actually suggested "school uniform" as something they'd wrap up as a Christmas present? Your experience is poor, but it's not representative.

We've suggested all sorts of "needed" but nice items. Bicycles, sports gear, equipment for hobbies, jackets, bags etc.

You can buy all of the latest must-have all singing, all dancing toys and gadgets your kid has asked for. With so much choice for what to play with they'll not be able to keep their attention on anything. They'll just get bored very quickly, unwrapping one thing after another, tossing each gift aside as they reach for the next.

A nice, big cardboard box on the other hand will provide hours of entertainment. I'm not suggesting that you do give them just a cardboard box for Christmas, I'm just pointing out that a few well-thought out presents goes much further than burying them in expensive tat.

My kids loved their toys. Not once did they play with the box despite me always hearing this.

The only time they played with boxes was when we had something really big delivered from Amazon or similar.

It’s strange that people find the idea that children may get four Christmas presents as sad or miserable bothers me more than any rhyme. I didn’t follow the rhyme when DD was younger but I don’t see why it’s miserable.

Children can be and unless spoilt probably will be very excited to have four well thought out presents. Not every parent can or wants to buy their children loads of gifts.

I see that those who follow the want, need, wear and read formula use it as a guide and the category of need is usually another want.

Wear is often for older children expensive clothes they wouldn’t get normally or even things like dressing up clothes or roller skates or scuba diving gear (I mean you wear them don’t you?).

I don’t think it’s miserable at all. What is miserable is when people call other parents names for creating different traditions or celebrating Christmas differently to them.

It feels a bit headmistressy to me. Along the same lines as prissy little moralising sayings like "enough is as good as a feast!" or "you won't get there any faster if you're dead" or "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all".

I think it's the "something to read" that tips it that way for me, more than anything else, as well as the idea that only ¼ of what's given is a pure "want". I loved books and reading as a kid so with books I'd have been getting gifts I appreciated, but books as a universal thing even for kids who get no pleasure from reading comes off as "gifts" with an improving ulterior motive. It would feel like me as an unfit adult being given fitness kit every Christmas.

Added to clothing and essential items, it's something that means that — unless you subvert it as PPs do by interpreting "need" in particular ways and insisting that "wear" automatically means special treat clothes or hobby kit — most of the "gifts" unwrapped aren't very Christmas presenty, as though you're trying to teach children a lesson about showing gratitude for the things parents have a responsibility to provide anyway. I don't actually care what people give their kids for Christmas, mind — it's just that the rhyme itself and its implications comes over as priggish to me.

I get that putting a bit of mental structure in place helps a parent faced with the amorphous task of getting appropriate Christmas gifts for a child. It's just the way that this particular rhyme comes over.

you do you I guess. Personally just about everyone in my family regards books as indispensable to holidays and fun times so it doesn’t come across as prissy in the slightest. It’s more like it’s not really Christmas if you don’t get a book. The rhyme is a useful framework for shopping.

I loved books and reading as a kid so with books I'd have been getting gifts I appreciated, but books as a universal thing even for kids who get no pleasure from reading

What kid gets no pleasure from reading or having books read to them? It's a pretty universal human thing to enjoy stories.

You know what, if a parent with not much cash wants to make their childs 'pile' of presents look bigger by including a couple of bits of stuff others would call school uniform (or supplies), then I don't see what is wrong with that.

The endless images of people with insane mountains of gifts must make it really hard when you are doing your best & you just can't put more than one or two presents under the tree.

I think parents feel under pressure to produce a Hollywood Christmas experience when in reality, they may have been skipping lunch for a month to come up with £25 as a budget to get presents at all.
That can look pretty sad compared to every Christmas card, film, ad etc.. you are bombarded with at this time of year.
If they bulk it out with a much needed school jumper/scarf/shoes or the pens/calculator, I don't see the harm.

Not everyone has a wider family who will be buying presents for their child either.
Sometimes what 'mum' puts under the tree is all that's going to be there.

That's not crappy, that is someone doing their best to make something out of next to nothing.

@deeperthanallroses I'll happily do me, thanks. My family all love books and reading and give and receive them as gifts all the time. It's the mandating of "something to read" in the rhyme that makes it come across that way to me. Lots of people are not you, or me, and might feel it's not Christmas without, say, some sort of edible gift, or a new calendar. But those aren't in the rhyme. The fact "something to read" is what's chosen for the rhyme regardless of preference (everyone has wants and needs and wears things, but not everyone reads for pleasure) is meaningful.

@BlackberriesArePurple huh? Reading is a leisure activity some people like and some don't. Like video games.

It's not wrapping up and giving whatever that I'm talking about. I don't care how other people manage their Christmases or whether they choose to wrap up some special toothpaste or give books. Nobody else really gives that much of a shit what you do TBH.

It's very specifically the rhyme itself, it's tweeness and its whiff of superior moral virtue, that just comes across to me as… ugh.

Totally agree. It's middle class bollocks.

It's in the category of they'll fucking love it!

I regret that I didn't do this from the off and would like this to be universal.

And it's a bit sad that we've become so spoilt that a gift shouldn't be something you need. Definitely a first world problem.

It's not miserable or joyless. How do you know they don't get something amazing they want, an item they need like a laptop or football boots, a branded hoodie, and they may love books.
It's miserable for you and yours obviously but not for everyone.
Some people prefer to make Xmas about family and spending time together, going to theatre, concerts or other events or going away for a few days rather than spending lots on multiple gifts.

Not once did my children play with boxes! Aside from the occasions they played with boxes!

Plenty of studies to suggest that children are happier, more imaginative and more creative in their play with fewer toys. Of course children love toys, and that’s covered by “something they want”. Doesn’t have to be “everything they want”, that’s all.

The most miserable and joyless part of this thread is everyone calling people miserable because they don’t buy mountains of gifts (whether quality or tat). Hardly in the spirit of Christmas.

Little anecdote, my brother and I were thoroughly spoiled as children. Our parents were war babies who were brought up with nothing, became well off and went nuts giving us everything they never had. We had everything we wanted all year and then at Christmas had several expensive gifts, and many smaller things. I was always embarrassed and lied to my friends so I didn’t look spoiled. I was also never particularly satisfied, I never really wanted the gifts, so was always (internally) a bit disappointed that I had a huge pile but nothing created that ‘joy’ you see in films. My brother has struggled with debt as an adult. He’s well paid, but cannot wait for anything so is always buying big ticket things he can’t afford. The items don’t bring him joy for long and he needs his next ‘hit’. He’s literally addicted to ‘getting stuff’.

I now hate being given gifts. Its a complicated thing, I just feel sad when people spend money on me and I don’t really love it. I get pleasure from researching and choosing what I buy for myself and only buy what I really want.

I don’t have kids, but if I did, I think the poem (albeit naff) is a reasonable guide for picking a nice mix of gifts that will be appreciated. The latest toy, a practical gift like a bike or phone, a really nice item of clothing or outfit, and a book.