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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Such a rude girl

102 replies

SomethingweirdaboutNoddy · 19/11/2022 16:50

My Dd, 4.

She’s just become really rude, especially since she started school.
It was always the only thing that I was ever really bothered about…her being kind and just hopefully a nice, polite person.
She really isn’t anymore and I’m wondering if this is a phase, maybe at 4?
We've always taught her to speak nicely, try to be kind etc, and she *Can be kind some of the time, but she’s also become quite rude in the way she speaks to us and other kids and even other adults.
She’s v bossy and demanding and sulks around the playground and tends to pull
faces at other kids/not want to play with them. She used to run up to them happily before.
We were stood in the queue at the playground cafe today, behind another woman and she was moaning ‘I wanted to go there, hurry up’ etc, luckily the lady didn’t hear her but it sounded so awful.
Dh and I are v calm, polite people and I’ve no idea where she’s getting this from or when our teaching her the kinder way to be will rub off.
Where are we going wrong?

OP posts:
FKATondelayo · 19/11/2022 19:07

So she was behind a lady at the cafe queue and said "I want to go there hurry up" and that is supposed to be beyond the pale? Sounds typical four year to me. Just tell her to keep some thoughts to herself.

It was always the only thing that I was ever really bothered about…her being kind and just hopefully a nice, polite person.

Don't worry about that - female socialisation and popular culture will have her fully brainwashed into being a nice, kind compliant good girl by the time she is 18.

Lalalaleeloo · 19/11/2022 19:09

SomethingweirdaboutNoddy · 19/11/2022 19:01

@MobbingMyrtles What do you mean?
I mean that I only want her to be happy. She’s bright but I don’t push her and *Don’t care about her being good at schoolwork etc etc or winning competitions or being sporty or any of those other things. I just wanted to raise a kind, polite person, those are the things I feel are important

You think being polite is more important than being happy?

Suzi888 · 19/11/2022 19:09

summersun29 · 19/11/2022 16:52

YABVU - she's 4!

😕 Are most 4 year olds rude? Nope.

Are you being a bit soft? Do you give in to demands/tantrums/ do you make her say please, thank you etc?

Boxofsockss · 19/11/2022 19:11

I wouldn’t call her rude. She’s at an age where that means virtually nothing to her and therefore no ‘intention’. Maybe when she grows up she may be more blunt with how she says things. Personally I’d make a joke about it and then it into light heartedness

LadyMarmaladeAtkins · 19/11/2022 19:11

It was always the only thing that I was ever really bothered about…her being kind and just hopefully a nice, polite person.

Oh dear... she'll get walked all over if not worse if you don't help her to grow a backbone and realise that she doesn't have to "be kind" and people please all the time.

I agree that politeness and calmness are good traits to have most of the time, they help you get on in life. But sometimes being too nice and too polite doesn't get you anywhere, eg in a lot of workplaces you end up not progressing, and it IS necessary to be very forthright if not downright rude, in some circumstances out in the world.

Her behaviour is very normal for 4 years old and will need managing for any actual bad behaviour that persists. It sound as though you would benefit from some parenting classes and getting a bit more worldly wise to help her do that without going too far the opposite way. Read a bit more of Mumsnet's out-of-your-comfort-zone topic areas and you'll see all sorts of examples of when women need to not "be kind and... nice, polite".

SomethingweirdaboutNoddy · 19/11/2022 19:16

@Lalalaleeloo Where did I say that?

OP posts:
JenniferBarkley · 19/11/2022 19:16

One of the things that has surprised me as a parent (and I'm generally a bright person so it shouldn't have done) is that just because it's important to you and just because you tell them something, they won't necessarily listen. Grin You sometimes have to tell them a thousand times.

Keep telling her, mostly with gentle prompts but a stern tone when needed, and a consequence when the rudeness is particularly egregious (which it will occasionally be, because 4).

Also - I want my daughters to be good people and to be happy. That will often overlap with politeness and niceness and kindness but not always.

Dixiechickonhols · 19/11/2022 19:29

DelightedDaisy · 19/11/2022 19:06

I was in a queue to buy children in need cakes with my DS who’s 4 yesterday just after school. He was whining that he was bored, stamping his feet and pouting quite a lot. I was really ashamed too. I did consider marching him back home but the scene it would have caused was too much. I can’t lift him either so it would be embarrassing. In another scenario where I didn’t know people though, I would have just walked away and told him to follow.

I spoke to him afterwards about it being not nice to whine.

Your daughter is normal to be bored by queues. I find them boring. I told my son I understood he was bored. My son isn’t usually rude, he’s just incapable of handling his big emotions when he’s tired, hungry or ill.

It doesn’t need to be a scene. Warning they need to stop or you are going. If they persist then just go holding their hand. Simple consequences. Wait in line nicely you get cake, stamp your foot and whine you don’t.

girlmom21 · 19/11/2022 19:35

DelightedDaisy · 19/11/2022 19:06

I was in a queue to buy children in need cakes with my DS who’s 4 yesterday just after school. He was whining that he was bored, stamping his feet and pouting quite a lot. I was really ashamed too. I did consider marching him back home but the scene it would have caused was too much. I can’t lift him either so it would be embarrassing. In another scenario where I didn’t know people though, I would have just walked away and told him to follow.

I spoke to him afterwards about it being not nice to whine.

Your daughter is normal to be bored by queues. I find them boring. I told my son I understood he was bored. My son isn’t usually rude, he’s just incapable of handling his big emotions when he’s tired, hungry or ill.

Why didn't you correct his behaviour at the time?

It's very easy to say "we're waiting patiently until it's our turn. Everyone else is doing it without complaining and it'll be our turn soon but if you don't want to wait we can go home now - it'll just mean we miss out on the lovely cakes."

DelightedDaisy · 19/11/2022 19:37

girlmom21 · 19/11/2022 19:35

Why didn't you correct his behaviour at the time?

It's very easy to say "we're waiting patiently until it's our turn. Everyone else is doing it without complaining and it'll be our turn soon but if you don't want to wait we can go home now - it'll just mean we miss out on the lovely cakes."

Sorry, I realise this wasn’t clear - I did tell him at the time that I understood he was bored and that I was bored too. That no one liked waiting in queues. I said we could go home instead but he didn’t want to.

HuggsBosom · 19/11/2022 19:38

I agree with pps saying teaching girls to be kind and nice and polite is overrated.

Maybe she’s rebelling against the constraints of the above being placed on her.

JenniferBarkley · 19/11/2022 19:40

Dixiechickonhols · 19/11/2022 19:29

It doesn’t need to be a scene. Warning they need to stop or you are going. If they persist then just go holding their hand. Simple consequences. Wait in line nicely you get cake, stamp your foot and whine you don’t.

Oh come on. Yes ok some four year olds will come without a scene (I would've and I suspect my two year old might be similar by that age, we'll see) but most of the time a four year old who's already misbehaving isn't going to come quietly, it's going to be a massive scene. My four year old would have the mother of all tantrums, and I wouldn't be able to physically carry or drag her out of the shop, especially if I had another child or shopping bags with me.

So yes, in that situation I would be sticking to correcting and warning of other sanctions.

DelightedDaisy · 19/11/2022 19:40

Dixiechickonhols · 19/11/2022 19:29

It doesn’t need to be a scene. Warning they need to stop or you are going. If they persist then just go holding their hand. Simple consequences. Wait in line nicely you get cake, stamp your foot and whine you don’t.

Maybe you’ve forgotten or don’t know what 4 year olds are like. It absolutely WOULD be a scene. He’d wail at the top of his voice he wanted a cake and then refuse to leave the queue no matter what I said or did. I’d have to walk away and walk away slowly in the hope he’d give up his stubborn protest and follow me.

JenniferBarkley · 19/11/2022 19:42

Jinx Daisy Grin

Dee876 · 19/11/2022 19:46

so far I’ve read “ I’d rather my daughter not get surgery than be in a mixed ward now this about a 4 year old . FOUR !!!!

1/ for the woman who’s daughter needs life saving surgery stop making up
proBlend that aren’t there .

2/ Your daughter is 4. She can see she is pressing your buttons it’s so obvious so she does it more . You all need to chill the hell Out , god forbid one of you gets a real problem 🤦🏼‍♀️

Dee876 · 19/11/2022 19:47

Sorry , “problems that aren’t there “

Dixiechickonhols · 19/11/2022 19:57

DelightedDaisy · 19/11/2022 19:40

Maybe you’ve forgotten or don’t know what 4 year olds are like. It absolutely WOULD be a scene. He’d wail at the top of his voice he wanted a cake and then refuse to leave the queue no matter what I said or did. I’d have to walk away and walk away slowly in the hope he’d give up his stubborn protest and follow me.

Maybe I was lucky or maybe mine knew I meant business (tone and no empty threats - hate the if you don’t stop sweetie we are going repeatedly threatened with no follow up). They are 4 you firmly take their hand and leave. If they shout or cry so be it. I wouldn’t buy cake for a child whining and stamping.

Hurdling · 19/11/2022 19:59

Sounds like she needs support and understanding, not judgement as a ‘rude’ 4 year old, she’s learning and school is exhausting. Model good social skills and find the need behind the behaviour.

AmeliaEarhart · 19/11/2022 20:03

I don’t believe that any of the posters here - if a random woman behind them in a cafe queue starting telling them “hurry up! I wanted to go there” - would think “you go sister! Girl power!” They’d think they were obnoxious and probably a bit unstable. Which is why we teach our children that it’s not acceptable behaviour, so they know better by the time they are adults.

I was on packed bus on the way to work the other day. A woman got on and starting glaring at everyone while muttering loudly that there were too many people and we should move out of her way. I’m pretty sure no one admired her for sticking to the patriarchy. We were all just thinking she was a dick who was making everyone’s already miserable commute even worse.

DelightedDaisy · 19/11/2022 20:04

Dixiechickonhols · 19/11/2022 19:57

Maybe I was lucky or maybe mine knew I meant business (tone and no empty threats - hate the if you don’t stop sweetie we are going repeatedly threatened with no follow up). They are 4 you firmly take their hand and leave. If they shout or cry so be it. I wouldn’t buy cake for a child whining and stamping.

I think you were lucky. I am always consistent and I am aware of threatening something and not delivering which is why I carefully considered whether I should threaten to leave the queue and the consequences of then leaving the queue.

if I firmly took his hand, he wouldn’t walk, he’d refuse to move which means I’d be dragging him! If I was somewhere where I didn’t know anyone I wouldn’t have cared though, I would have left. I just didn’t want all the school parents seeing him crying and refusing to move. I have carried him out a cafe queue before for misbehaving. He was only 3 then though so I could lift him.

Endwalker · 19/11/2022 20:05

AmeliaEarhart · 19/11/2022 20:03

I don’t believe that any of the posters here - if a random woman behind them in a cafe queue starting telling them “hurry up! I wanted to go there” - would think “you go sister! Girl power!” They’d think they were obnoxious and probably a bit unstable. Which is why we teach our children that it’s not acceptable behaviour, so they know better by the time they are adults.

I was on packed bus on the way to work the other day. A woman got on and starting glaring at everyone while muttering loudly that there were too many people and we should move out of her way. I’m pretty sure no one admired her for sticking to the patriarchy. We were all just thinking she was a dick who was making everyone’s already miserable commute even worse.

OP's daughter isn't a random woman though, she's a 4yr old. If I heard a 4yr old behind me in a queue speaking like that I'd probably politely say to them that I didn't like queuing either and that I'd be as quick as I could, would probably also pass a wry comment or two with the parent and have done similar in the past because I know what it's like to have small children.

ChocolatemilkBertie · 19/11/2022 20:07

It’s not a sign that you’ve done anything wrong, but it still needs to be dealt with.

Lots of children are rude, all will be rude at times (intentionally or not) and it needs to be handled accordingly.

So not intentionally rude I would say is when they, for example, point out something that as grown ups we know not to say. “That persons very fat” “thats a big spot on your face” “Your nose looks funny” “Grandads house smells weird”. You correct them each and every time, how would you like it if I said your hair looked daft today? Building empathy and consistency, they need to learn how to filter. Not punished, just discussed.

The rudeness in the form of no manners, answering back, cheekiness and such needs to be firm. As a teacher, I’ll be honest that I reinforce please and thank you with an iron fist (not literally of course. I’m no Miss Trunchable. But It’s my pet peeve).

To begin with in reception I absolutely covered the children in stickers when they remembered to say it (and not after being reminded or 2 minutes later when they realise they’ve missed the chance) and I frequently ignore children who don’t until they do, so If they wave their snack at me saying “open it Miss Bertie” I ignore but say to the class “goodness me I can hear someone speaking but sadly they’re not using their polite words so I don’t understand!” If they say “I want” I’ll likely say “pardon? I didn’t understand that”, until they remember. Such an important life skill and it’s not modelled for everyone, I work hard to model it everyday.

Answering back, arguing back, rude words to me results in consequences. As it’s reception, this is normally their free choice to choose what to play removed. We don’t do Time Outs, but if a child is rude to me or their friends I will choose where they go, normally a table by themselves with a puzzle or a book for a while. Children can join them but child needs to stay put (for a certain amount of time)
If they’re rude in a lesson, they may find themselves doing work in free play with me rather than choosing. I’ll move them from their friends on the carpet. I will call them out for it in front of the class, be form in explaining what they’re saying is not good and they won’t be chosen for special jobs or tasks.

I will just add that I’m not a dragon reception teacher! Starting school is hard, it’s a big adjustment and all the children from different environments are thrown into a big melting pot and will be teaching and learning from each other, and with that, as someone said above, comes standing their ground and standing on their own two feet which is a tricky thing for a child to do. They need lots of love and support through it.

And that brings us to the main point. Some children learn rude behaviour, some are reacting to the change, some are finding ways to cope with something they’re finding difficult, some are magnets to others who also find it funny. And it needs to be nipped before it escalates and the child needs support finding the right way to express themselves and learning to manage themselves when they’re cross, upset, tired, don’t get their way etc. That’s what being 4 is all about.

OP, I’m sure you are a wonderful parent so don’t beat yourself up about it. She’s 4. She’s gone through a big life change and the novelty has warn off. She will learn. Carry on teaching her the correct way to speak and act and react. Be consistent in enforcing manners firmly yet positively and use appropriate consequences for rudeness as necessary along with lots of praise for kindness and considerate acts. Be clear of what is acceptable, like I’m sure you always have been, and stick with it.

AmeliaEarhart · 19/11/2022 20:09

Endwalker · 19/11/2022 20:05

OP's daughter isn't a random woman though, she's a 4yr old. If I heard a 4yr old behind me in a queue speaking like that I'd probably politely say to them that I didn't like queuing either and that I'd be as quick as I could, would probably also pass a wry comment or two with the parent and have done similar in the past because I know what it's like to have small children.

I was responding to those posters who were suggesting that the OP didn’t need to correct her daughter’s behaviour, and teaching good manners was somehow unfeminist. The end result of that would be an adult who still had no filter and voiced every complaint or negative feeling out loud.

JenniferBarkley · 19/11/2022 20:10

AmeliaEarhart · 19/11/2022 20:09

I was responding to those posters who were suggesting that the OP didn’t need to correct her daughter’s behaviour, and teaching good manners was somehow unfeminist. The end result of that would be an adult who still had no filter and voiced every complaint or negative feeling out loud.

No one said that the behaviour in the cafe shouldn't be corrected, of course it should. We were taking issue with OP prioritising politeness as her main aim in raising DC, which may not serve her well long-term.

EveryoneToHisOwnGout · 19/11/2022 20:18

@SomethingweirdaboutNoddy I'm not in favour of "I only want her to be happy". Of course we would all love our children to be happy, but their happiness would quite often result in someone else's unhappiness - so the best we can hope for is for them to be polite, and considerate of other people's needs as well as their own. They don't internalise this until they're about 20, so all you can do in the meantime is correct her every time she's rude (not as in "you are rude" - but as in "I would like you to say that again, but politely"). Kindness and niceness are different from politeness. I grew up believing that I had to be kind and nice at all costs (as well as polite), and as a result I am a terminal people-pleaser, which is not a good thing to be. However, politeness never goes amiss, so focus on that.

Don't be distracted by wondering whether your DD is on the spectrum. Most things in child development are phases, and this is likely to be a phase. When you've cracked this one and are on the verge of congratulating yourself, another phase will come along and floor you!

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