Such a rude girl

[SomethingweirdaboutNoddy]

My Dd, 4.

She’s just become really rude, especially since she started school.
It was always the only thing that I was ever really bothered about…her being kind and just hopefully a nice, polite person.
She really isn’t anymore and I’m wondering if this is a phase, maybe at 4?
We've always taught her to speak nicely, try to be kind etc, and she *Can be kind some of the time, but she’s also become quite rude in the way she speaks to us and other kids and even other adults.
She’s v bossy and demanding and sulks around the playground and tends to pull
faces at other kids/not want to play with them. She used to run up to them happily before.
We were stood in the queue at the playground cafe today, behind another woman and she was moaning ‘I wanted to go there, hurry up’ etc, luckily the lady didn’t hear her but it sounded so awful.
Dh and I are v calm, polite people and I’ve no idea where she’s getting this from or when our teaching her the kinder way to be will rub off.
Where are we going wrong?

Fuck me sideways… since when we’re adults due absolute respect just because they are adults?
As if being polite was the paragon of virtue!
She might well decide to be or become to be nothing like you or your DH and guess what, as a separate entity she’s entitled to do so.
You can’t just teach personality into children.
And I echo the pp above saying teaching politeness and kindness as the only or best way to be engaged with others isn’t necessarily the best way: if she were being bullied would being polite solve that?
There are other things to teach children, like being assertive without being aggressive and being rude, outside of MN, is not the world-ending catastrophe it appears to be.. especially in a 4 year old child who has more than just her parents as models now she’s at school

Chill out lady. I did not say it was OK to hit children. Outcome does not justify means ànd smacking is illegal. You're the one jumping to the idea that 'harsh punishment' is physical violence. Maybe you aught to leave your day job qt the door when you come home at night. Because clearly you see with hurt eyes. Dont get me wrong, I glad you're out there fighting the good fight. But cool it eith the 'people like you' nonsense.

Im with you op. Manners and kindness are a top priority. This will be echoed at school.

I'd want to find out from the child's class teacher how they were settling in at school. The dynamics of a class of 30 children are going to be much more complicated than, say, a smaller group at nursery.

And when I'm in a queue and tired and/or hungry I'm quite capable of thinking 'Oh come on,' and 'Don't be so slow'. I think to expect a small child to know it's not appropriate to voice these thoughts because it will cause annoyance to others and not actually make anything move more quickly is a big ask. Yes, one would discourage the behaviour, but I don't think it's particularly outrageous.

I think it's good for girls to assert themselves and know their own needs, but we also need to teach them skills about how to manage and negotiate situations. Which takes a long time...

We expect a lot of tiny kids who start school. They’re bloody exhausted until they properly settle in which can take a very long time. I don’t know about you OP but I’m pretty cranky when I’m tired as well. Kids start school at 7 in other countries. But we expect 4 year olds to act like mini adults as soon as they’re off to school. Cut her some slack and relax a bit. Also try and allow for more chill out time after school and at the weekends.

Totally agree. Never smacked my kids and our house is a non shouting zone generally, but I’ve never tolerated rude behaviour, especially to me. I’m on some teenage parenting groups (mine are 18 and 14) and parents constantly asking what to do as their kids are being so rude and disrespectful and they are scared of them. It’s too late at 14 IMO, this starts way way younger, like 4.

My teen pushes the boundaries now and then with their attitude, usually an "excuse me?" or a "would you like to try that again?" is enough to prompt them into dialling it back. I've never smacked any of my DC. They also don't hide things from me and will always admit that they've messed up or done something they shouldn't because there's no fear that I'll "go off it". They do have consequences and boundaries, they respect me but they're not afraid of me.

It was always the only thing that I was ever really bothered about…her being kind and just hopefully a nice, polite person.

Why such low and even damaging aspirations for your child? Being “kind” is not necessarily a good thing, especially for girls. Nor is being ”nice”. Being polite is important, though. That’s something to work on.

we’ve always taught her good manners and always speak to her when she’s like this

Speaking to her obviously isn't working if she keeps doing it. What other consequences are there?

Teaching girls to be kind is overrated.

Since when we're manners exclusive to girls? Everyone should be taught not to be irritating and rude because kids may be cute at 4, but it wears off eventually. This really isn't a feminist thing

(Not a slight at your dd op, just saying manners should be universal!)

Absolutely, it’s very normal for teens to push boundaries. My kids know they can come and tell me anything too and I’d always help and support them, no matter what it is. They wouldn’t do the same with their dad though, but I’ve largely raised them as we split when they were 6 and 2, and he’s worked overseas a lot. I remember commenting to my DS once that a parent in a teenage group got window locks as we have a ring and ring do them and he was completely confused why anyone would need window locks. I said because they sneak out etc. He sat there for a full 5 mins or so and then said ‘but we’d just ask you and you’d say yes’! You can raise good polite kids without being ultra strict and I genuinely believe that raising them to be respectful is a big part of that. I can’t imagine my kids ever speaking to me like some teens speak to their parents.

I would say they are usually polite at 4 especially to adults they dont know. Ofcourse they all have their moments (tantrums (usually caused by tiredness) bad moods etc) but I would be surprised at a 4 year old being rude to a stranger, especially as she is clearly not hearing it at home and shes growing up in a nice environment. Does she have clear boundaries? For example, when she was rude to the adult in the park, did you immediately take her out the park and tell her off, so she understands thats completely unacceptable behaviour? I would speak to the school if it continues and explain the change you have seen.

Yes, definitely! Manners and politeness are not about being a doormat and are not mutually exclusive with standing up for yourself, they’re just basic social skills. And if you’re not teaching them to your child you are failing them.

It's always the case isn't on MN. Ridiculous assumption to make OP is asking for advice here.

This is what happens when your child is exposed to other people's children. Although will positive role modelling at home this should be a short lived phase. Good luck.

Come down hard on rude behavior. Correct it EVERY SINGLE TIME.

She’s just become really rude, especially since she started school.
It was always the only thing that I was ever really bothered about…her being kind and just hopefully a nice, polite person.

Wow, the only thing you are bothered about? Your poor dd.

Why do people on here excuse everything, and say rude behaviour is normal. I do not know any four year olds who are rude

Teaching girls to be kind is overrated.

Only on MN is kindness a character flaw. You can be kind while still being able to stick up for yourself. Funnily enough, some of the posters who rage against girls being taught to be kind are those who write the most unpleasant and aggressive posts on MN. If their world is the one we should be aspriring to you can count me out.

@MobbingMyrtles What do you mean?
I mean that I only want her to be happy. She’s bright but I don’t push her and *Don’t care about her being good at schoolwork etc etc or winning competitions or being sporty or any of those other things. I just wanted to raise a kind, polite person, those are the things I feel are important

I have a rude child and a wonderfully polite one. I am ashamed to say it has taken me years to understand the rudeness comes from a need for control and we think, anxiety. Sounds like utter tosh and a massive excuse, but that attitude meant that it took me years to realise the cause and join the dots up. She behaves completely normally at school.

We are not sure if it is anxiety, PDA/Autism or something but we are trying to find that out now.

I am not saying that this is the issue for your DD, but just that I understand that you can parent effectively and where necessary very robustly and it not always have the desired outcome.

@SomethingweirdaboutNoddy our dd started school at 4 also. She very quickly picked up many things that we were unhappy about. The tone of voice, sounding so sassy and rude. Being cheeky and some blow out tantrums. One day she even went to pull and tip a dining chair after seeing a child in class do it. All completely normal, your dd is now asserting her independence and seeing what she can get away with, testing boundaries. It will pass, how quickly depends on how you both react. Our dd didn’t get anything nice if she was rude, if out and she was rude she was taken home and told exactly why. She soon picked up that when she was good she got good things/had fun. Also when she used a rude or sassy tone we said - I have told you I won’t talk to you when you use that voice. Again she soon learned. The manners you instilled are still there just keep strong and put your foot down.

Agree. My (now teen) boys were never rude in this way. We very much wanted them to be polite and kind and to have friends. Always taught them that unkind and rude children end up lonely and they have found this to be true over their school years.

Just kept correcting her, OP. If she’s rude, tell her and take her home if you’re out.

I wonder if she’s picking it up in school if it’s started since she started school.

It does sound like wanting someone who is docile/sociable/malleable.

I do think knowing the social codes is important. But 4 year olds are pretty simple creatures, so I think it is more about 'Please' and 'Thank you' and learning to share/take turns etc at that age.

Isn't it more about discovering who your child really is - which needn't be about being a world champion sportperson or academic genus - and celebrating that? Rather than trying to impose a kind of bland goodness upon her?

I was in a queue to buy children in need cakes with my DS who’s 4 yesterday just after school. He was whining that he was bored, stamping his feet and pouting quite a lot. I was really ashamed too. I did consider marching him back home but the scene it would have caused was too much. I can’t lift him either so it would be embarrassing. In another scenario where I didn’t know people though, I would have just walked away and told him to follow.

I spoke to him afterwards about it being not nice to whine.

Your daughter is normal to be bored by queues. I find them boring. I told my son I understood he was bored. My son isn’t usually rude, he’s just incapable of handling his big emotions when he’s tired, hungry or ill.