Are we morally obliged to work ?

[Justthisonce12]

630,000 economically inactive people in the UK not claiming benefits. Early retiree’s I guess.

Hunt plans to tackle this and encourage work force participation to allow businesses to grow. ie cheap labour I presume ? But also preventing a brain drain.

Will be interesting to see how he plans to address this.

@NCFT0922

Thats an awful lot of strawman

@Topgub You think? That’s pretty much what happened to me. I’m bemused you think it’s a misrepresentation.

@NCFT0922

Sorry, I've lost your point? I was talking about your comments about me judging and disliking when I haven't mentioned either.

What happened to you?

I'd love a job. I've had to leave my care job because I can't work until 9.30 pm nor on some other shifts start until 8.00. I've been in the job for a year but now I'm out unless I can change my life so can do that. I can't get childcare for it, so not a single call for me. I'm looking hard for more work. Nothing yet. So don't believe the rhetoric they're on their knees for carers. It's ludicrous.

I've had to leave my care job because I can't work until 9.30 pm nor on some other shifts start until 8.00
that does seem mad, why wont they be more flexible if they are desperate for staff?? Are employers just too used to having the whip hand?
I hope you find something soon @Onlyforcake 🙏

true, but I think it's also a huge problem that society see's childcare as a cost to be deducted from the mother's wage, it should be seen as a cost borne jointly by both parents

Well if you pool your money like a lot of married couples, does it make any difference? It’s still the same drop to the overall household income.

Well if you pool your money like a lot of married couples, does it make any difference? It’s still the same drop to the overall household income
I hear you and maybe it shouldn't make a difference but sadly it is used all to often to ensure that it's women who sacrifice their career ambitions & earning potential rather than men

ClearHead · 17/11/2022 12:20

I never went back to work once we had children and our children are now teens. My partner works, we don’t claim benefits. I do lots to contribute but I like being here for the kids, even though they’re teens.

Morally, should I work to personally contribute tax, who knows?

Same here i never went back to work I have inherited money which paid off mortgage and invested the rest to provide some interest. Also now get a work pension. My husband now only does 4 days a week. We do not claim any benefits and dont need any extra income.

@KimberleyClark @bridgetreilly @PiggyInTheLidl @Onnabugeisha @lieselotte Fair point, if people are paying income tax on unearned income plus VAT, road tax etc such that they pay in what they are likely to cost over a lifetime plus their share of what needs to be put in to cover people who really can’t work, I am ok with that. However I doubt most people’s VAT & road tax etc comes anywhere near this. Tax on unearned income for wealthy and retired people might.

@lieselotte I don’t know how to format a quote but you said “Who do they think should be paying for people who can’t work

The younger workforce who still need to work to pay their mortgages/rents?

And pensioners who pay income tax.” I’m not sure why you think younger people or pensioners should be paying YOUR share of what needs to be put in to cover people who really can’t work?

@Dinosauratemydaffodils What would I do to encourage people to work? I would provide much less at the state level except to people who really can’t work and reduce income tax so if you are working it works out the same but if you’re not working and could then you need to get a job. Eg no NHS for most people but reduce basic rate income tax to 15p or whatever so a working person can afford private insurance using the tax saving.

I would provide much less at the state level except to people who really can’t work and reduce income tax so if you are working it works out the same but if you’re not working and could then you need to get a job. Eg no NHS for most people but reduce basic rate income tax to 15p or whatever so a working person can afford private insurance using the tax saving.

What about people who don't meet your threshold for not working but can't get a job? Last year I applied for loads of minimum wage type jobs (mostly service type jobs), I didn't get a single one. The ones I asked for feedback said they didn't think I'd stick it given my previous experience/qualifications so they went with someone else.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils There are more jobs than jobseekers (see eg this article www.bigissue.com/news/employment/the-uk-has-more-job-vacancies-than-unemployed-people-for-the-first-time/) so everyone should be able to get a job. Maybe not exactly the role/hours/location they ideally want, but a job. And I think it’s right that people who can work and aren’t otherwise paying their share do work, even if it isn’t their ideal job, rather than expect people who do compromise on role etc and get a job to pay for them because they won’t compromise.

I still think if you don't need to work, thn you shouldn't have to.

Thing is a lot of those jobs that we can't fill are hard physical roles like catering and caring.
The 60s something's who currently can afford not to work aren't very likely to go for them even if the government applies the stick approach to make them go back to work.

I'm late fifties and I couldn't be on my feet for hours at a time , how people do it I'm not sure
I do really suffer with my feet though , but I admire those who do these tough jobs day in day out
I know many don't have any choice at all , but it's not easy and many people end up with bad feet / backs etc as they age.
I am on my feet for my job, but it's not for that many hours and doesn't involve any heavy lifting or physical work either

Even if an argument could be made that you ought to work how can you be made to if you don't need the money?
If I was ordered to go and dig up potatoes for minimum wage I would just turn up very late to work and then take a break every 10-minutes because my back was hurting or something, theyd soon sack me and then I could carry on with my nice relaxed but frugal life where I have enough to live on from my own little self-employed business.

Exactly! Iwas lucky to have an inhertance of about 70k. This let me 'retire' for about 4 years and have a pretty good lifestyle. Now I have to work so am doing care work. Seriously considering going to a supermarket as it pays a fraction more. If only our important sectors paid us properly. Any job working with the general public should also come with an idiot bonus - as there are so many.

If only our important sectors paid us properly
Surely they'll have to now otherwise they wont be staffed?

@the80sweregreat
as someone of similar age and with foot issues...I found birkenstocks very helpful, might help you aswell?

Out of interest, why do people think that it's up to schools to provide childcare outside of school hours? Schools are there to education children. Childcare for working parents is a different thing altogether. Providing childcare for 100s of children before or after school is really different for a school to manage inhouse because there simply isn't the staff to do it. Teaching and support staff and caretakers already work long hours, they are prepping for the school day before school and after school phoning parents, planning,having meetings etc.

So where exactly do the staff come from? You need to consider ratios. Where does the space come from? Do you want rows and rows of children sitting in the hall watched over by teenagers? Would retired people want to come in and do these few hours a day? Who is responsible for ensuring there are enough first-aid trained people there? Where are the extra caretakers going to come from to open up the site earlier and close it down later? Where are the cleaners who are going to ensure that the school is ready for, er, ACTUAL school in the morning? And the kitchens ready for the catering staff to come in to prepare for the lunches? Where is the money going to come from for extra heating costs?

It is very short-sighted to assume that schools should be responsible for this. It is not the job of schools to look after your children before and after the school day so that you can work, I'm afraid.

sorry for typos, rushed the post out

I wouldn't say workplace practice has improved hugely in the last 40 years. There are some things that are undeniably better, yes, but a lot of jobs have undergone shittification in recent decades.

This. I remember when I graduated in the 90s. There were still a lot of part time jobs around. I'm talking genuine part time - with a proper contract, not a shitty zero hours thing on minimum wage. Many were women in ther 50s, or young mums, or maybe men close to retirement age who still wanted some paid work rather than going from FT to notthing at all. Those jobs seemed to be the first to be cut during austerity, putting that work onto the FT workers that were left.

So now the option is to work a FT post that is effectively more than FT because the workload is more than it should be, or a zero hours or minimum wage job in hospitality or somewhere, that used to be done by students. There is not a lot in between at all. Yes, some people can negotiate pt once they're in a job, sometimes a temporary reduction or dropping a day or compressed hours or whatever, but a genuine half of a FT post ie. 18.5 hrs a week, they barely exist anymore.

Not only that, but terms and conditions are greatly reduced. I used to have scheduled morning and afternoon breaks as well as an hour's lunch break. The work wasn't highy paid, but having those made the day more enjoyable and manageable. You had time to make personal calls at lunchtime eg make dentist appts etc, go to a local cafe for lunch or do your shopping if you were in town. I think those kinds ofthings are gone for a lot of people. We have become workhorses and not human beings with needs.

excuse my rambling, sleep deprived response, hopefully it makes some sense.

When I wrote

I’m becoming convinced that schools in these areas thinks that most mums are SAHMs by choice and have enough money in the bank to not be bothered by any of it.

I was actually thinking about the amount of times I’m asked to go in to school most weeks, during working and schools hours to attend xyz, I then adapt my hours and agree only to be given a few hours notice that x has changed and will now be at 10am instead of 9am and will last an hour rather than 20 mins. That reduces my work day by 50%, I can’t afford to be doing that every time I send a slip back agreeing to attend. In fact if was that disorganised at work I wouldn’t have a job.

I have mentioned that there are no breakfast or after school clubs available, I don’t expect school to provide additional childcare, however, I would certainly utilise clubs if they were available, even if it were put on by an outside provider and chargeable. Mainly because I have no childcare options available to me, childcare spaces are all full already and no family nearby, but also because of the opportunities it gives kids to do a new sport, hobby, language, whatever.

Many schools do offer these options and it’s certainly not a new thing, was happening when I was at school 30 something years ago. It just seems that in some locations schools seem to think that all mums are SAHM’s and can drop everything at any time. I’m happy to change my working pattern to attend but giving me a few hours notice of changes once I’ve already committed isn’t helpful or acceptable. If I were messing them around like that they’d have something to say to me.

Obviously, my main point is that the lack of available childcare options, breakfast and after school clubs make it difficult for women to work. Many jobs want people full time for set hours and compromises often come at a significant financial cost for families. So while of course it isn’t the schools responsibility to provide additional childcare, there’s nothing parents can do either, short of becoming childminders themselves.

If I could magic up infinite childcare, flexible hours and fair wages for all I would, but that’s not going to happen.

That said I have met a few people who are on long term benefits because of autism and have no plans to ever work, it would be good to find a better path to employment for them because I know personally two who are listed as unable to work when they could easily do a wfh proofreading type job.

@Dontaskdontget

You do you know?