To think Scotland should become independent?

[antelopevalley]

As life continues to get worse in the UK, it is time for Scotland to go independent. We need to build a forward-looking country that invests in its future, rather than the backward-looking country the UK has become that prioritises the rich. It is time for Scotland to separate from the UK and become that country.

You do realise that the only people who've ever come up with the 'too wee, too poor, too stupid' line are N Sturgeon and her independence pals. They repeat and repeat the assertion in the hope that Scots will eventually believe that Westminster/the English/pro union supporters think that. To drive another wedge, to fuel division, to shift the focus away from the practicalities, to tug on the emotions, to whip up the hatred.

I agree OP. YANBU.

@CapMarvel Scotland did not vote on that premise - in fact the SNP White paper expressly warned of the consequence of a no vote being a referendum on the EU. On THIS advice Scotland still rejected independence - see direct quote below—

‘A new threat is now emerging: the growing possibility that, if we remain part of the UK, a referendum on future British membership of the EU could see Scotland taken out of the EU against the wishes of the people of Scotland’

It beats me why you want to stay in a country - the UK - that only works to benefit the rich.

So much money wasted during covid, so much fraud by big business.
You think that Scotsgov hasn't been lining someone's pocket too? How naive.

Even the current budget deficit could be halved if HS2 was scrapped.
Have you been reading the Daily Mail? The UK's budget deficit is £99bn per year. HS2's construction budget is around £3bn per year.

You say you have children?
when/if Scotland gets independence free prescriptions, eye tests, dental checks, Uni tuition, and the YSB will go out the window immediately. You are deluded, and NS is an absolute fucker. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Actually your unionist co-posters are doing their utmost gleeful best to convince Scots that 'we're too wee, too poor and too stupid' with their comments. A wee selection is underneath for your perusal. Nothing that Nicola Sturgeon has said 👍

'I live in England and wish I could vote to unload Scotland to be independent. It is a drain on the rest of our UK resources.'

'What will you use for currency Nicola when you try to rejoin the EU?'

'They wouldn't have you.'

'Would this mean that Scotland would fund itself? If so then yes please.'

'If the EU will have them.'

'The EU wants contributors not takers. Scotland joining as an independent nation would take out a lot more than it could put in - therefore I doubt the EU would be that keen.'

'The idea that Scots are passionate about the EU is laughable.'

'Have you watched the Scottish parliament in action? Absolutely embarrassing.'

'Who’d want to buy debt from a small, corrupt country with talent free politicians and a civil service as deep as a puddle?'

'You seem to be under the impression that there is a right to secession in international law and politics too. There, in fact, is no such right…'

'thankfully this thread isn’t going the way OP wanted it and is highlighting the shitshow that Scotland has to endure due to the idiots who continue to vote SNP.' (Idiots =The Scottish electorate)

“Exactly this. ^ I reckon if Scotland DO vote to leave the UK, it will be 2 years tops before they're BEGGING to be let back. They don't know how good they've got it being part of the Union, and how much worse off they'll be if they leave. Be careful what you wish for!

I never understand why there isn’t more appetite for England to become independent.

Nope, sorry. The principle argument of the no campaign was that staying in the uk was the only way Scotland stayed in the EU.

No thanks

@CapMarvel A LITERAL QUOTE FROM THE SNPs OWN PAPER IN 2014 🤦‍♀️

So if it was that important to Scotland to remain in the EU why has there been no significant post Brexit bump in the independence polls?

@Jaffacakeorisitabiscuit exactly. The SNP tried to gaslight Scots into thinking they were passionate about the eu in order to create an opposing view from the tories. In reality the eu ref voter turnout was woeful and the SNP spent less on pro EU referendum campaigning for than they did on a by election in Shetland.

@Letsgetreadytoblackcurrantcrumble yes that one is particularly special. Not an isolated occurrence from her either…twitter.com/themajorityscot/status/1592590946671042560?s=20&t=rVwlRGm61GbGkkwlmVf0AA

It's a matter for Scottish people, so I hope they are given another vote soon because of brexit. And then what will be, will be. Not sure why english people get so heated about it.

@DownNative

How very undemocratic of England not allowing EU nationals etc. resident in England (and her chattels lol) to participate in the constitutional vote on exiting the European Union.

The Scottish people live in a COUNTRY, not a state, therefore we can decide to fuck-off out of this (so-called) union of equals 😂without England's permission.

omg that’s hilarious! I love the comment underneath “Ma Broon’s let herself go”. Says it all.

Don't talk utter shite. Just about everything on this thread by unionists is telling use we're too wee i.e. you do not have the resources to support your population without the broad shoulders of the superbly generous (joke!) English, too poor i.e. you will be an economic basketcase without the broad shoulders of the superbly wealthy (joke!) English, and too stupid i.e. your politicians are not a match for/patch on the superbly diplomatic, able, compassionate, dilligent, integrity-filled, honest, transparent, intellectual, talented and personable (fucking massive joke here!) English politicians.

You just have a comprehension problem if you can't equate what is being said on here and elsewhere, by some people who have never even set foot in Scotland, pontificating on our abilities and right to self-determination.

Trez1510, your post above demonstrates clearly why the abuse won't change anyone's mind. Why on earth would anyone who had their doubts about Scottish independence be converted by that sort of tirade?

Most of those commenting on the thread are either Scottish or resident in Scotland. TBH, I think people in Northern Ireland, England and Wales also have a right to an opinion on the proposed break up of the UK.

The OP has lived in Scotland for a few months. Probably not long enough to have grasped the ins and Outs, no matter how much they've read up on the subject. But I guess that's OK with you because they're giving us the benefit of their wisdom and experience in the matter and telling us that Scotland needs to become independent. So that's alright then. The OP has spoken.

The majority of Scotland do not want independence. We had our vote. We voted no.

Absolutely this. The only people I know in RL who actually hate the SNP are loyalists.
I will struggle to vote for them again if the GR bill goes through, but fuck me no one else to vote for.

Scotland voted to remain in the UK in 2014 largely on the premise that it was the only way to remain part of the EU. How did that work out?

It worked out as well as it could. Staying in the UK was the only realistic way that Scotland could have remained in the EU - but having made that choice, the UK - including Scotland - then made the majority choice to leave. Meaning that the pro-Brexit voters living in Scotland - as part of the UK majority - then got their way, just as the pro-remain voters living in E/W/NI - as part of the UK minority - did not get their way.

As I said before, it was a per capita referendum, so entirely irrelevant where each voter happened to be located. Statistician were free to analyse and publish the data on how many people living in Wales/bald people/people under 5' tall/Audi drivers/Beatles fans/people living in houses with green front doors/accountants/whatever voted one way or the other - but ultimately it meant nothing more than a little vignette of potential arbitrary interest.

Everybody can only vote based on the current circumstances, in good faith - voting one way in an election or referendum in no way guarantees that future votes will go your way based on your choice in this one.

Seriously, what would the alternative have been? Should we have disregarded the (majority) collective vote of the people who happened to be in England, Wales and NI and only counted the votes of voters who happened to be in Scotland? Should we have given voters living in Scotland 2, 3, 5, 10 votes each and everybody else only 1 vote? That's the kind of 'democracy' that would have made the likes of Mugabe beam with pride!

...which is irrelevant to the point being made. Never mind, eh.

The alternative is, fairly obviously, that having been sold a lie on brexit Scotland should be permitted to hold another independence referendum.

Yes, Scotland voted to remain in the UK. Yes, the UK as a whole voted for brexit like a bunch of fucking idiots and yes, you cannot deny that there is a huge feeling of betrayal in scotland as a result of that.

Recent polls would suggest that, at best from a unionist point of view, Scotland hasn't made it's mind up and at worst that actually over the last few months there are more people in favour than not of independance.

FWIW, if the majority of voters in Scotland want independence, then by all means they should have it - whatever mixture of good or bad it ends up leading to. No nastiness needed and no hard feelings - we can still be friends as neighbouring independent countries.

It just happens that the majority of voters in Scotland explicitly voted against independence. Whatever the rights and wrongs of democracy, we go by the majority of votes - whether counted individually or in groups - and not purely based on who shouts the loudest or feels they are the most passionate/best-informed/wisest/wants it the most.

By all means campaign for another referendum(s); as long as you are genuinely driven by an honest desire to reflect the latest will of the majority - meaning that, should the next vote go in favour of independence, you would be just as much in favour of a future referendum(s), which may well swing the other way. Demanding repeated votes until you get what you want and then suddenly banging the door shut is not really how the spirit of fairness works.