To think the NHS have made me infertile and to attempt to sue them?

[outpatient]

I had a miscarriage ten weeks no bleeding heartbeat stopped I then had a d and c surgery to remove the foetus and since then my problems started,

All I've had is continual early miscarriages - which I am reading is common issue after d and c surgery due to womb scarring.

I have even had corrective surgery I paid 5k for and the early losses are continuing in the same way, I've had scans that show I had adhesions which happen after d and c, things feel different since the d and c

I'm very angry, what do I do about this I'm almost certain my issues have been caused by the d and c surgery

Why is the first thing you think of (as per your thread title) to sue, but not actually find out what the actual cause is?

@outpatient just wanted to correct your definition of Ashermans. It's not the walls of a room getting thicker and less space, it's when the layer of the endometrium is freshly scraped, and unfortunately two bits stick together. This isn't malpractice if it had been caused, it's like an infection on a healing scar - sometimes it happens.

I have all the sympathy for your struggle but the NHS isn't necessarily to blame. Definitely focus on finding out what is wrong, I'm not saying there wasn't something wrong, I'm just saying it's highly unlikely with this case.

I've been there, the D&C, the worries, Ashermans etc. luckily mine was short lived so I can't begin to understand how you feel after all this time.

I honestly don't know why the answer is and then government want to spend on triple lock peoples pension who don't even need it when the health system is falling to shit

Because those pensioners vote Tory.
So sorry you’re going through this. Agree with a pp that you could seek some legal advice. If you don’t have a copy of the paperwork/consent forms perhaps ask the hospital for a complete copy of your patient records? Wishing you the best of luck. Xxx

OP out of interest how old are you? Asking as obviously the chances of miscarriage go up as you age and this could be a factor

I have had miscarriages and several D&C's.

I'm sorry for your losses but the NHS completed your medical care to the best of their ability.

Uterine scarring is a known possible side effect of a D&C and you would have signed consent forms

The alternative could have been retained products and that could have caused a very serious infection. I am
In no way saying be grateful for what has happened instead, but the NHS is not to blame for your losses.

So sorry for your losses

Have you had any investigations to find out what is causing them? If not, I think you need to do this before blaming it on the D&C. I also have thyroid issues. No children yet but I have been told to seek medical advice to make sure my thyroid is stable before attempting each future pregnancy I may have and to see my GP as soon as I get pregnant as my medication may need changing straight away.

Is your thyroid stable now? Are you on PTU if your ttc? Are you under consultant care now?

The nhs don't routinely tell you if you have an overactive thyroid that it can cause miscarriage because its supposed to be a temporary condition I didn't find out till my dd was 2 months old

Has OP been diagnosed with Asherman's syndrome or does she just suspect she has it?

Why did OP have a scan before 10 weeks pg?

Be very unlucky for Asherman's to be triggered after one D&C.

"Endometriosis ... can cause Asherman’s syndrome."

I’m torn in my response.

Personally, as a woman and woman who has miscarried my heart breaks for you and I’m so sorry to hear about your experiences.

Pragmatically I think you’re looking for someone to blame because you are so upset and the blame is misplaced. You’ve no evidence they did anything wrong. You could contact PALS and ask them to get you a copy of your consent form, which they should have on your file. The consent form does outline the risks and if you signed it you’d have to prove there was undue pressure or they didn’t give you a proper explanation. A case like this is very likely to be dismissed.

Like others I would suggest focusing on what you can do to help your fertility. Good luck.

I think you are subconsciously looking for something to be angry at when really you are angry at not having a baby. I am childless myself not through choice and I do understand that. But you had to have the procedure and subsequent miscarriages are more likely because, well sadly some women do repeatedly miscarry before going on to have a successful pregnancy.

I don’t like the NHS either but I don’t see that they have done wrong here and an attempt to sue them is likely to fail and cause you more anguish in the meantime. I think you maybe would benefit more through finding somebody to talk to you (in a professional capacity) rather than find someone to sue.

Actually I’d look at suing, it’s the only way they learn. You can get no win no fee because the solicitors take out an insurance policy on the case.

Im in healthcare, some drs don’t give a shit as long as they get paid.

I'm so sorry for your losses and what you are going through. The NHS can be frustrating at the moment despite all the people who work so incredibly hard for it. Perhaps you should consider private healthcare with health insurance if you can't ever get anything from the NHS ?
I hope you find a way through this

Sorry for your multiple losses. I'm not sure however that the D and C procedure is responsible for your multiple mcs. It could be that there is an underlying issue that needs investigating that caused the first and subsequent losses.

I noticed in your other thread you posted yesterday that you have a history of endometriosis and this is far more likely to be a recurrence than scarring from the D and C.

I can see you are having a nightmare with your GP at the moment and I know many are having an awful NHS experience. Keep pushing for a referral to recurrent miscarriage clinic. Also if you are seeing a private specialist you could ask about the possibility of endometriosis returning and a laparoscopy to diagnose/treat any scar tissue or endometriosis present. Also do this if you get referred to NHS clinic however private waiting lists will be much much shorter.

You could request your hospital notes from when you had the D and C and see what the surgeon has written about the condition of your womb-whether there was any scarring present at that time. Go through the hospitals PALS department to be directed on how to do this.

Hope you get somewhere soon OP, take care x

I noticed in your other thread you posted yesterday that you have a history of endometriosis and this is far more likely to be a recurrence than scarring from the D and C.

I agree. Endometriosis carries a much higher risk of miscarriage. Im sorry for your losses but you have no proof the NHS caused this.

I think when you were consented for the D&C you would have been made aware of the risk of adhesion/infertility/bleeding/potential need for hysterectomy and even potentially death while under anaesthesia.

You have probably signed away your right to any legal recourse as it is a know (but rare) complication of a D&C.

It takes ages to sue NHS. I have read nearly half their budget actually goes on their legal matters. They are very difficult to sue - look at the HIV infected blood scandal. Have you researched going to another hospital for help - some NHS hospitals are better than others? You can ask to go to a different hospital, but it may take a year or three.

I mean this gently but I think you are lashing out at a 'cause' because this is easier than accepting our bodies don't always work as they should.

You've said you have thyroid issues that might contribute and other conditions but all your focus is on this?

I think you'd be better to put your energy into those other issues and exploring if there's anything that might help you here rather than focusing on a hypothetical legal case you wouldn't win.

And so I see a private fertility specialist today who has already taken 7k off me and sits there for 20 minutes if shit advice and charges me £150 plus costs of blood tests when I've just had NHS ones but can't get the results

I just never thought I'd be in a position where neither NHS or private is helping me noone seems to give a flying fuck

I mean this kindly. May I suggest you spend some of this money on a good therapist to help you come to terms with the possibility of childlessness. I am not sure your current path is helping you.

@outpatient my understanding is that with a missed miscarriage a D&C is the only way to remove the pregnancy so I'm not sure what else you'd have like to have been done differently? Having recurring losses must be heartbreaking but I feel you'd have extreme difficulty proving it was negligence during your surgery and not scarring from undiagnosed endometriosis or similar. I think legal action will result in disappointment and a massive legal bill. If you haven't already done so, ask for investigations into your miscarriages and maybe try counseling for your grief. Wishing you all the best 💐

Putting this with your other thread, I completely understand that you're in the thick of the worst of infertility.

At these times you really want to find something or someone to blame.

You said in your other thread you have endometriosis as well. Had that been diagnosed by the time of your D and C?

It might be worth reaching out to one of the infertility charities to talk through everything that has happened.

I've not heard of Ashermans but I've had a hysterectomy and was warned that adhesions were a common complication. I think I may have them, as I get occasional twinges in the pelvic area, but it doesn't bother me enough to do anything bar mention in passing to a HCP if it were to come up. Although my circumstances are very different in that obviously I knew I wasn't going to get pregnant after adhesions are something that is often inevitable following abdominal surgery. It's noones 'fault' because it's a natural bodily response to surgery. I compare it to the external scarring I have following that and other surgeries, though obviously in this case it maybe causing more issues than with me.

@outpatient I'm really sorry you're going through this.

I had surgery for a mmc last November (my 6th pregnancy loss but first surgery). When we were ready to try again in March I was told I had suspected scarring and had to pay privately for surgery but following that my lining never responded to synthetic estrogen (am doing ivf).

I looked back on my surgery consent form and no where did it state that scarring is a risk. It listed 7 other potential risks but no scarring. I successfully went through the complaints procedure to have the consent form amended.

In your situation I would contact PALS to request a copy of your consent form and notes and take it from there. With my complaint I was able to have a detailed scan and then the clinical director did my follow up consultation.

I'm under a private specialist now and had extensive testing. I know how completely devastating recurrent losses are ❤️ sending love. X

I've had 4 MMCs. Two were passed naturally, one was with medical intervention (tablets inserted at the cervix) and only one was surgical management. It just depends on the individual. I wasn't given a choice with my first 2 losses, just sent away.

Nhs miscarriage care is the absolute pits. And follow up care is non-existent.

Sueing the "NHS" (ie a Trust) is usually very long-winded and complicated. But if people have a genuine case they should do so. The idea that the money comes out of patient care or pensions is entirely wrong, all Trusts are insured to deal with claims. And litigation can help to change poor practice.

Having said that, although you might have a case (no-one can tell you that without expert advice) it is a lot more complicated than just having a feeling that you are unhappy with your care. There are very high legal hurdles to be cleared.

I am sorry for your (multiple) losses and understand your need to blame someone, but I don't think suing the NHS will get you any respite, just more stress and anger.

You say you 'think' you have Asherman's Syndrome; have you actually had a diagnosis about this?