Goodbye Monarchy, as is

[Poopoolittlerabbit]

that’s it really. I’m not fussed about the ‘king’ -
happy to downgrade the entire system.
the jewels, the palaces, the changing of the guard belong to the country, and/or people … if Charles buggers off we keep all the tourist attractions, and all that people say makes the royal family worth while ££
now the Queen has gone, the ‘firm’ needs to go
done with them. AIBU?

The racism isn't alleged, which is why I'm quite surprised some people apparently found it so difficult to believe. Either that, or they were simply in denial and didn't want to believe anything unsavoury about their idols.

They have a long-documented, unassailable track record of racist behaviour. It's undeniable as it's well-illustrated with unassailable evidence of it.

To agree with that unpalatable proof is to some extent to accept Meghan Markle's account of it. So Meghan had to be proven a liar every single time she opened her mouth. PR/Media thus went into overdrive to split hairs over tiny, insignificant issues to prove her word is untrustworthy whilst the Windsors, well, they couldn't possibly polish up their tarnished image or ever be guilty of the smallest mendacious statement.

Utter tosh. But I have to hand it to their PR. They're good - bloody good.

I’d forgotten about the racism…

That was my point but it obviously went over the OP's head.

They sent children down to work in mines at 9. They had four years olds employed to climb into machinery to collect debris. Other lives meant nothing to people in that time. It’s not “what about ary” to point this out.
Claiming “what about ary” it just an attempt to put the breaks on discussion.

We need to do better than shut our ears to the world history of human rights violations.

Earl Spencer was there and has stated that it's fiction based loosely around real events.

John Major was there and has said that it's nonsense that Charles suggested the Queen should abdicate.

Netflix themselves say "We have always presented ‘The Crown’ as a drama – and we have every confidence our members understand it’s a work of fiction that’s broadly based on historical events."

I disagree as I find plenty of people think it's actual history. I actually think it's wrong to make a drama like this about people who are still living.

I disagree as I find plenty of people think it's actual history. I actually think it's wrong to make a drama like this about people who are still living.

I also think it's quite sad that some people actually think it's practically a documentary

@Dreamingcats they would say that wouldn’t they, but I couldn’t possibly comment 😄.

S5 has been appalling though. Not least because Diana didn't constantly look at people through her fringe. She was taller than most, and it would have taken a contortionist to do that.

There could have been so much more in it. All the Fergie stuff and the phone tapping. The actual divorce. The press being told - and generally sticking to - staying away from the young princes.

But do the Scottish love the RF? My Scottish family and friends certainly don't.

‘But do the Scottish love the RF? My Scottish family and friends certainly don't.’

there seems to be some fondness for the Queen for hiding out in Balmoral whenever she could and for her fondness for Scotland, but I personally don’t know many Royalist Scots…

The Queen wasn't that much really except she knew to keep schtum and smile away and never let in the daylight into the magic of monarchy and she had the 'good luck' ' to come to the throne post-war and be young and beautiful and grown into the role. Meanwhile, Chaz has had 74 years to become King of the Annoying Inkpots and Pens.

I’m a descendant of those people. My great, great grandparents were Irish immigrants fleeing the famine. What good would an apology do? None.

I imagine at some point Jewish people will say the Holocaust was so long ago it doesn't matter anymore or more likely they never will. The British as victors like a version of history where they are always the good guys but it's not true and that's where the RF need to tread carefully, particularly with all the Commonwealth stuff that the late Queen deemed so important. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

I didn’t say anything about timescale. The point is that we don’t have a rewind button. We can’t change my great, great grandparents having to leave Ireland for a better life, we can’t prevent my great, great grandma ending up in the workhouse. What’s the point of apologising? They’re not here to hear it. What we can do is honour them and respect their struggle. I may be deluded but I think they’d be pleased to see how generations of their descendants have made the most of the opportunities they created for us.

Very true - apparently at the turn of the 19th century one of my ancestors was hung for sheep stealing in Cumbria - probably out of poverty and hunger as was the plight of most of the peasants and emerging working class of that era.

The struggle of ordinary people fighting for their rights and justice against the might of the state that stands over them with the RF at the very apex is the true heroic story of Britain. The Battle of Peterloo (Manchester) should be remembered as Waterloo but tellingly is not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre

IF we had an elected head of state, what kind of person do you suppose would put themselves forward for that position? And undertake all the political machinations, horse trading and skullduggery necessary to get the job? It's the kind of job that no-one that is sane and honest would ever want.

‘I imagine at some point Jewish people will say the Holocaust was so long ago it doesn't matter anymore’

fucking. Hell. I’m fairly certain they won’t EVER say the murder of 6m + Jews doesn’t matter.
Just like Irish people haven’t forgotten about how the British government sat and watched as their children starved to death.

‘IF we had an elected head of state, what kind of person do you suppose would put themselves forward for that position?’

by your argument we should do away with democracy altogether then? Maybe get ourselves a nice dictator instead? Hell, why not just get rid of the Commons, give Charlie the powers to properly rule and just have him and the House of Lords running the show.

IF we had an elected head of state, what kind of person do you suppose would put themselves forward for that position

Google the Irish Presidents and you'll be very pleasantly surprised

Oh and happy birthday Charlie! No offence, mate it’s not personal. At least you’re not as creepy as your sex offending brother.

Excellent point. I'm in NI and have lived under the mire of the past all my life. I don't want to know about the past (except to learn from it) - I want to thrive into the future. I am sick of people holding grudges for long-imagined hurts, and in many cases, people who really have no idea why they hold them!!

Slavery was not unique to the UK, nor were human rights issues. We've evolved. Things that were commonplace 100 years ago, 50 years ago, 10 years ago even, are not acceptable today. What good are reparations or apologies to victims who are long gone?

@MattDillonsEyebrows

But it doesn’t look like you’ve been brainwashed by ‘a fawning media and the glorified concept of a monarchy’ @theworldhas so why would anyone else be?

where did I say everyone is brainwashed? However, if you are disputing that consistent media bias (or the work of the global advertising industry for that matter) is unable to seriously affect the decisions people make and views people hold then I would suggest that pretty much all available research suggests you are wrong. Research in psychology shows that people views are very easily influenced/ easy to manipulate indeed.

The vast majority of British people used to believe that the benefits of slavery outweighed the negatives, that the existence of God was self evident, and that the idea of giving women the vote was preposterous. They weren’t brainwashed - their beliefs and worldview was simply the product of the environment and society in which they were raised. Monarchy is no different.

It isn't a genuine difference of opinion IMO, it is a strawman argument.

Many countries seem to have found a way of getting a Head of State without it going to someone who was born into the role.

It will be interesting to see if countries where the Queen was Head of State and now Charles is - to see if things change and what they do,