Prince Andrew taken back into the fold this weekend.

[Wishiwasinmalta]

AIBU or will the popularity of the RF drop like a lead balloon if they keep on doing this?

Yeah. I mean how dare she tell a few porkies.
definitely worse than supporting a convicted child sex offender.

depending on your moral compass of course 🤷‍♀️

I wouldn't object to PA meeting my 15-year-old daughter, though I wouldn't promote it either.

Because I am there to protect her, she isn't going to parties of older men without my knowledge, she wouldn't meet him without my knowledge and me asking questions about why she was meeting him, and where, and if there was a valid reason for meeting who would be there as chaperone if I wasn't invited (and why I wasn't invited).

There is no suggestion he has knowingly had sex with an unwilling, under age participant.

Sadly there are young women who are not protected by their families, who are groomed or threatened into the 'glamour' of providing for the fantasies of wealthy men. There are moral/ethical aspects to that, and increasingly legal penalties that understand coercion and grooming. But maybe Woman A made a free choice to go to glamorous parties and have sex with famous people out of choice, and Woman B was coerced. Both could have exhibited the same behaviour at the same party

I wouldn't want to go back to a world where women have to be 'pure' until marriage. Why shouldn't we explore our sexuality and the power of desire?

The flip side is that this can be exploited.

@sig That is a disgusting rape apologist post.

Well the Queen was confused about Paul Burrell's court case until the 11th hour and then 'remembered'.

There's a lot of it about in royal circles. A bit like money and influence.

So your argument is that a girl between the ages of 14 and 17 willingly consented to parties with a convicted sex offender, and was moved overseas where she met a Prince who had a totally innocent relationship with that convicted child sex offence. But all that is her parents fault cos they should have been chaperoning her?

no responsibility at all for the convicted child sex criminal or the public official who chose to attend parties held by the convicted criminal who brought underage girls?

I can't bear Andrew or his ex-wife- both unpleasant, money-grabbing, entitled, idiots. However, I am unconvinced by VG. The Dershowitz thing is one part of it - and shocking, but the photo with Andrew is odd. If you look at the right hand side of it, there is something very strange about the position of her right hand.It looks as if it is flat against something but it isn't- there is a significant gap between her hip and the hand. Very odd.

But you don’t think exploiters of girls should be accountable?
nice

Alan Dershowitz has always strenuously denied any involvement with Virginia Roberts/Giuffre. She tried to sue him for defamation, saying that he had called her a liar. Now it has been settled out of court with no payment from either side.

The case was due to be heard in March next year. Discovery of the facts ahead of the trial was due to be completed by 30th November this year (two weeks away). Now she says she was mistaken. If the case had gone ahead it would have been the first time her allegations would be examined in a court of law. Coincidence?

Andrew was an absolute fool to be friends with JE and GM, but he's always been known to be arrogant and I suspect he thought his royalty would protect him from any repercussions. But people are questioning Ms Guiffre's allegations, and the accusations of having forced, trafficked sex may not be as strong as they once seemed.

I find the fixation with the photo and the ‘did he/didn’t he’ odd

who gives a shit?
why isn’t the fact he was best mates with a child sex offender for years problematic enough?

I think she's credible.

She settled. Andrew settled. People settle cases all the time.

Do people really not know what a paedophile is?
It's someone who os sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. Note the 'pre-pubescent.' Whatever the truth of PA and Guiffre, she was 17.
Absolutely I dont know why people keep throwing this word around completely out of context, its ignorant and completely undermines it.

Wikipedia strikes again. People know that is not a reliable source, right? Pedophilia is attraction to children - anyone identified not as an adult. That includes post pubescent children. The ones that target pre-pubescent children are harder to work with and have a higher change of reoffending if caught.

That interview was an (imo) astonishing insight into how he sees himself & how (again imo) incredibly untouchable he thinks (knows??) himself to be.

That he met with JE after he came out of prison (paraphrasing here) as it would have been bad manners to break off the friendship other than face to face.

That he walked in Central Park with him!

Are you suggesting that the established convictions of Epstein and Maxwell based on the testimony of multiple witnesses is questionable because another different witness has clearly settled out of court with the rich lawyer she accused praising her publicly (an odd thing for someone wrongfully accused!)

if so I’d appreciate a better understanding of your ‘logic’

I'd like Andrew to actually sort out his interview with the FBI asap.

apple.news/AM2UvI174Q3ypvtp03ZvVhA

Sorry, been a bit busy today. A few more replies since I last looked. This is the article I saw this morning.

Rape apologist?

I was groomed and abused as an older teen. There were occasions when, because I was groomed, I propositioned men for sex. That was my way of seeking affection. That does not mean I was raped. It means I was so messed up I looked for love in sex, and the men I had sex with thought I was a young woman (over the age of consent) who just wanted a one night stand.

Should they have asked more questions? Some of them, maybe, because the age/attraction gap was so large. But I can understand why they didn't, and just accepted their 'good luck'. It is societally acceptable for older men to have sexual relationships with younger women, which is also messed up.

It wasn't illegal. The person in the wrong was the person who first groomed and abused me, plus to a certain extent my parents who failed to protect me.

The men I propositioned? As far as they were concerned I was a liberated young woman who had sex with whoever she chose. As many young women do, as they should if it is their choice

@Sigma33 so if the person who first groomed and abused you was a con red criminal, would you not expect a senior Royal who befriended that convicted criminal to perhaps ask some questions if the abuser presented you ax an opportunity for sex ?

or do you think that intelligent men in positions of power have no responsibility in assuring the safety of girls presented to them for sex by convicted child sex offenders?

It was a private family event .

That's a bit of a stretch!!

Of course no-one in public office/position of responsibility etc should be 'promoting' paedophiles and I have said that all along. You are deliberately twisting things to set yourself in some kind of moral 'high ground'! Just climb down there.

It was a shooting party.

You have consistently used this thread to criticise someone who was a victim of sex trafficking in support of a rich white bloke who chose to befriend a child sex offender.

just because that rich white bloke is a Royal.

there’s no twisting or stretching.
you describe Andrew’s deliberate and consistent friendship with a child sex offender over many years as ‘Ill-advised’ but not ‘criminal’

it might not be criminal. It is abhorrent.
you choose not to see it as such and instead to try and attack woman who suffered years of abuse at the hands of Andrew’s ‘friend’.

I doubt you’d behave that way if it was Dave down the pub who was running a child grooming and trafficking ring. If it was and folk you knew knowingly and actively supported it would you choose to befriend them? To overlook parties with young groomed 14-17 year olds from your local comp and their attendance at sex parties with local officials, lawyers, mayors and businessmen? What if your DD and her pals were invited to parties where men in their 30s and 40s groomed them for sex?

still totally comfortable with the non-convictions of these men?

we know that Andrew did all of this.

@justgettingthroughtheday

Oh yes, I do know. I was just very interested to hear what justification somebody had for the odd opinion that a grown up man marrying a grown up woman is worse than a gross old man sleeping with teenagers.

I have no doubt I was not the first or the last the be groomed by this person.

But I also recognise that many of the men I had sex with would have assumed I wanted it. If there was any conviction it was me 'calling rape' after being a willing participant.

I think men (and women) should not be so full of themselves to imagine that a big discrepancy in age/attractiveness means they are so special that it overcomes anything else. That they should take the time to get to know the other person.

I mean I’d semi disagree with this. Obviously the fact that she was trafficked was an issue, but to me the fact that she was 17 years of age can’t be brushed off as ‘not an issue.’