Religion, the Church of England and State Ceremonies

[cakeorwine]

I know we have an established church. I get that. And that's probably the answer to this question.

I do feel uncomfortable with the role that religion - specifically the Church of England - plays in State Ceremonies.

Watching the Cenotaph events on Remembrance Sunday. A moving event - but it does have a lot of religious elements. Prayers, hymns and The Lord's Prayer.

I think that anything religious should stick to events that are just for people of that religion. Or if it is multi-faith, then involve other faiths.

Remembrance Sunday is a national event. Keep religion out of it and just stick to remembering the people who died.

It’s fuck all to do with Christianity,

Most students are kind, hardworking, caring and respectful. Including Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, or Athiest.

It’s not about Christianity. No one even mentions it in schools apart from RE teachers. Its about people having their own standards of decency and behaviour. Why would a fairy story have any influence on it? It’s just laughable.

Getting a bank holiday.

You can have them in a church if you want

Tell everyone the whole point and significance of Remembrance Sunday has passed you by without telling everyone the whole point and significance of Remembrance Sunday has passed you by.

The ignorance is off the scale.

Exactly. Remembrance Sunday is a day for Christians to remember and pay their respects hence: it being on a Sunday.

I could say that I've brought my ds up using the principle of Bhudism, Judaism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Islam.... They all have essentially the same principles of treating others as you would want to be treated. But I simply brought him up to understand right from wrong. That's the point that I'm making.

For many, religion is just a name. They may or may not be atheists (which I personally I term I dislike as the very word is predicated on the existence or otherwise of "god"; why not "a-flying spaghetti-monsterist" )
. They can still understand, live and love by good principles - in whatever "packaging" they come in.

100% agree with the OP. I just want to pay my respects and give thanks to those who gave so much. I don't want to listen to prayers and hymns about some mythical being. The vicar at the one I was at this morning droned on and on trying to sell their beliefs, at least the lady from the Hare Krisna's was brief. And the monarchy should keep well away as well, the only one who had any real active service is rightly hidden away. Let's not pretend that Harry was a real part of teh armed forces, the bloke can just about read and write.

Exactly. Remembrance Sunday is a day for Christians to remember and pay their respects hence: it being on a Sunday
Why can’t other people pay their respects? Why is it exclusively for Christians?

Armistice day is on the 11th which was Friday. No one is saying people can't join in both, but the service on the Sunday after the 11th is based on the Christian faith in terms of timing; the Sunday.

other kids could have benefited from the Christian principles that their parents rejected

Like what? Subjugating women? No sex before marriage?

Armistice day is on the 11th which was Friday. No one is saying people can't join in both, but the service on the Sunday after the 11th is based on the Christian faith in terms of timing; the Sunday

But this is tradition. It doesn’t HAVE to be held on a Sunday. Just because it was initially for religious reasons doesn’t mean that is necessarily what is wanted in modern society. It should be held on the 11th.

Removing Christianity to make it more inclusive does not make it more inclusive

What is inclusive about a fairy tale?

This is an interesting article by Dan Snow who expresses what I am trying to say

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/06/remembrance-sunday-lack-of-secular-presence

www.secularism.org.uk/ceremonies/

And another interesting article about a commemoration service in France.

www.secularism.org.uk/opinion/2015/12/national-occasions-need-not-be-dominated-by-religion-as-frances-commemoration-ceremony-so-poignantly-demonstrated

I don't know the role religion plays in France when it comes to national ceremonies remembering the dead.

Is it?

I thought it was a national ceremony to remember and pay the respects.

It's convenient to have it on a weekend so people can attend and watch.

Or it could be a national day on the 11th November to remember what happened.

Jesus Christ is not a fairy tale, ArseInTheCoOpWindow, however much you might want to deny history.
We have eye witness testimony of Christ’s resurrection, from St Peter, dictated to St Paul in Rome while he was imprisoned by the Romans. And many of the 2.3billion Christians globally have direct personal experience of the presence of God in their lives.
Dismissing religious belief as a fairy tale is offensive. Fortunately for you, Christians are more tolerant of such crass rudeness than, say, fundamentalist Islamic states. Go to Iran and try telling the mullahs that Islam is a fairy tale.

It doesn’t HAVE to be held on a Sunday. Just because it was initially for religious reasons doesn’t mean that is necessarily what is wanted in modern society. It should be held on the 11th

It was orginally held on the 11th because that was the date of the Armistice, not religious reasons, but was changed in the 1950s. Put it back to the 11th and can you imagine all the screaming about the disruption to people's lives and how they're expected to stop their daily routine for a religious service ?

Go to Iran and try telling the mullahs that Islam is a fairy tale

Which is exactly why religion is such a problem.Jesus Christ didn’t exist.

It could be removed as a daily act of worship.
It could be removed when it comes to the Coronation.

Of course, who would crown Charles and what would they say?

I am sure I could write an oath for Charles to read that would include everyone in this country.

As I said upthread - you could easily design a poignant service that remembers the dead, has meaning for all and does not mention God. Or has the Lord's Prayer in.

I didn’t watch it.

It's the National Service. With representatives across the political spectrum.

Representing the Nation. And those who fought with us.