Religion, the Church of England and State Ceremonies

[cakeorwine]

I know we have an established church. I get that. And that's probably the answer to this question.

I do feel uncomfortable with the role that religion - specifically the Church of England - plays in State Ceremonies.

Watching the Cenotaph events on Remembrance Sunday. A moving event - but it does have a lot of religious elements. Prayers, hymns and The Lord's Prayer.

I think that anything religious should stick to events that are just for people of that religion. Or if it is multi-faith, then involve other faiths.

Remembrance Sunday is a national event. Keep religion out of it and just stick to remembering the people who died.

@cakeorwine

Shops have limited hours on a Sunday - yes they are open but not unlimited

Bank and school holidays are based on Christmas, Easter, Pentecost

Pancake day (Shrove Tuesday)
Mothering Sunday

Some English laws are based on 10 commandments

The Church massively expanded education - bought buildings (many still owned) & paid teachers etc.

Last census 59% identified as Christian so still by far the biggest segment

Alms houses

First charities (& many do food bank collections etc. now)

The Cenotaph ceremony does not bother me at all.

It's part of our nation and remembering people who died.

It's the prominent role of the Church of England.

I think it's actually a really good flag as to who the arseholes are. The basic tenets of Christianity are reasonable. If everyone followed them, I suspect the world would be quite a nice place (see also Buddhism). But humans gotta human

It always bugs me when people claim - implicitly at least - that morals and ethics are uniquely "Christian"

So all the non-Christian parts of the world, both now and in the past, weren't/aren't capable of understanding right from wrong?

Funnily enough , we've managed to raise our ds to understand how to behave morally and ethically without reference to Christianity . Many of his friends are Muslim. Some are Hindu. They too know right from wrong - without reference to Christianity . The least "Christian" person he knew was his Catholic grandmother, who was toxic .

If I was offered the chance to have 2 bank holidays instead of Easter, then I would have no problem with that

Not the point. You aren't being offered them and it's vanishingly unlikely you will be; but I bet you don't work on the BH's we do get for Christmas and Easter.

It's a bank holiday.
We are shut that day.

If I was offered a chance to work Easter and take 2 bank holidays elsewhere I would.

Christmas - well, it's a nice time to have families together and give presents.

Sure, I think most faiths expect their devotees to be decent people - I'm assuming the OP though has a problem with any faith. Christianity is being discussed because it's the majority faith in the UK.

It's the prominent role of the Church of England

The CofE had at most 10 minutes. There was the military, the naval, the political and the royal and more than that, an hour of the man and woman in the street marching and honouring the dead.

You're talking incoherent bollocks, but that was pretty clear from page one.

If you had to take Easter as annual leave instead of it being a Bank Holiday, would you take it off?

I think that people from other religions have to take annual leave for their religious days - but Christians get it as a Bank Holiday.

I can imagine there would be uproar if we removed Easter and Christmas as official bank holidays - even if people were offered 4 extra days annual leave.

*Although these behaviour standards would have almost certainly been taught to you at school in the 80s, even if you didn't understand where it came from. Standards on how to behave decently towards others really shouldn't be out of date, whether a practicing Christan or not.

I'm surprised as a teacher you know nothing of this being taught across all of these schools you have worked at. Because as part of the curriculum, it will have been there.*

l was a teen in the 80’s. I remember clearly having assemblies but not paying attention. I dropped RE in what was the third year. So, it wasn’t very evident in my school.

As for teaching, students do RE, but the ethos and rules of schools are just not built on Christianity anymore. They just aren’t. And the moaning about RE from the kids was never ending.

I wonder if people would object if we lost the prayers and the hymn?

And just kept the rest?

The Last Post and "At the going down of the sun" would be a very poignant ceremony.

And inclusive.

I think that people from other religions have to take annual leave for their religious days - but Christians get it as a Bank Holiday.

Yes, that would be because the UK is still, however nominally, a Christian country. Not a Jewish one or a Hindu one or a Moslem one

Bloody hell, how difficult is this??

As an atheist I'm all for separating church and state.

But FFS we are talking about Remembrance Day services.

A service remembrance for the war dead. All religions and none gather together to remember the dead and support their loved ones.

This is exactly where religion should be - providing comfort to those who need it.

Your thread is misguided, ill informed and crass in its timing.

I know.

And that's the hold of Christianity.

Would it be a bad thing if we said "you can have 4 extra holiday days" that you can take when you want to - but we are going to take away Christmas and Easter as official Bank Holidays.

Schools have to have an act of daily worship of a mainly Christian nature

Not any more they don’t. I taught in a school of 1800 kids, millions of different religions. Schools haven’t done this for ages, as there is nowhere big enough to do it, too many different religions, and staff who are athiest and refuse to do it.

l remember an Ofsted in 97 where this was picked up, nothing changed. This was an outstanding school.Anyway it’s not the law anymore. Wasn’t mentioned in the next 5 inspections.

www.stoneking.co.uk/literature/non-faith-state-schools-no-longer-provide-daily-act-christian-collective-worship

When I said 'how difficult is this' I was actually referring to what appears to be your inability to get the point and your vague maunderings about 'if we did this' and the like . It's pretty obvious that you either a) aren't listening b) can't graso what people are saying for some reason or c) are trolling.

Shops used to have to close on a Sunday until 1994. Then it changed to 6 hours, so yes they're open but are only allowed to trade for 6 hours on a Sunday which is a law based on Christianity.

Has the law changed?

bills.parliament.uk/bills/2878/stages

b) can't grasp.

Sod it, why is there always a typo AFTER posting? anyway, I'm out. Debating (to use the word loosely) with OP is like trying to sack fog.

You can have them in a church if you want.