Religion, the Church of England and State Ceremonies

[cakeorwine]

I know we have an established church. I get that. And that's probably the answer to this question.

I do feel uncomfortable with the role that religion - specifically the Church of England - plays in State Ceremonies.

Watching the Cenotaph events on Remembrance Sunday. A moving event - but it does have a lot of religious elements. Prayers, hymns and The Lord's Prayer.

I think that anything religious should stick to events that are just for people of that religion. Or if it is multi-faith, then involve other faiths.

Remembrance Sunday is a national event. Keep religion out of it and just stick to remembering the people who died.

It's unpatriotic apparently

Says who? I'm a supporter of the monarchy and I don't sing it because I sound dreadful.

Other countries can commemorate their war dead how they choose and we can do it like this. It’s a lovely service

A lot of people take comfort in religion, this is predominantly a Christian country but it is not compulsary, Obviously there is quite a sombre and somewhat religious element to events such as Remembrance Sunday but does it harm people of no religion ? I don't think so. You are not forced to take part if you don't wish to

Is it stupid to suggest that religion - specifically the Church of England - should not play a leading role in national ceremonies?

Easy to have done this without hymns and prayers.
Easy to have church services with hymns and prayers and a service of Remembrance for people in there.

cakeorwine, you appear to have a bit of an agenda going. Why does your preferred way of doing things override other people's? The Church of England has a hold over precisely nothing in this country. We're all free to partake or otherwise. Lucky us. You won't be 'shamed' for not singing the national anthem, unless of course, you make a big fuss about it and try and stop other people who choose to sing, when you'd probably, quite rightly, be called out.

Were you hoping to start a bunfight?

We have a lot of other religions in this country. People who died fighting fascism.

I know they are represented there. Should they also have the equivalent of prayers and hymns as well at a national event?

No one would be forcing Church of England people to take part.

The service is how it is because that's what the veterans want.

Other forms of remembrance (or none at all) are available for those who want them. You do not have to attend RBL events if you do not like them.

I'm sure anyone can organise their own Remembrance ceremony without hymns and prayers.

But the CoE do it with hymns and prayers because they are a church. Attendance is not compulsory.

We do have a lot of other religions yes, but our core one is Christianity which our king is head of.

Is it stupid to suggest that religion - specifically the Church of England - should not play a leading role in national ceremonies?

Yes, and futile; because if it's a national ceremony then the CoE - as the state church - is part of it. What's your problem with that, specifically?

I'm cheerfully agnostic, but I recognise that faith is a huge comfort to many people. Army padres went into battle to support the living and give comfort to the dying.

Why did I pick N Korea and Russia? Well, I had a quick google and couldn't find any other country that has a time of remembrance to honour their war dead, which didn't include some sort of religious aspect. Please let me know if you do - I'd be interested.

The Church of England has a hold in this country.

How many Bishops are in the House of Lords.
Our Monarch is the head of the Church of England.
If someone in a national position did not sing the National Anthem, they would be shamed in some elements of the media.

And yes - my agenda is to ask questions about the role of religion and the State.

The Church of England would survive with being the State Religion of England.

The Church of England is our countries main religion , just as the Catholic Church is other countries church, or the Jewish Church, or Islam etc etc.

Not quite the same. I don't think Catholicism is a state religion anywhere (except Vatican City, obvs).

Our situation is more like that of Israel or Iran. The leader of the church is automatically our head of state. Senior clergy have positions in our legislature.

Let us presume that in many years time Iraq have a similar day of national remembrance. I would assume that should religion play a part in that remembrance it will be predominantly a Muslim service being the Islam is Iraqs national religion. Will you find that equally as distasteful?

Our National religion is Christian. It is right that any aspects of religion included in state events is on a basis of Christianity.

I guess this makes a change from a 'I don't want to wear a poppy and no-one's going to make me' juvenile strop.

Silly Op.

Is this a poorly timed wind up?

The clue is in the name “Church of England”

In terms of “God save the King” that could refer to an Anglican God, a Roman Catholic God, a Non-conformist God, a Jewish God Or a Muslim God.

my agenda is to ask questions about the role of religion and the State

Oh, is this your self-appointed mission in life? I think you've chosen the wrong place, we can't do anything to change it. Try Lambeth Palace or Buck House. Or just turn the TV off.

The question is really:

Why do we need a national religion?

Why do we need a State Religion?

And yes - I think that if you are going to have prayers, hymns, then let other faiths have theirs as well.

As well as humanists.

Would people have a problem with a humanist saying a poem?

Lots of people express opinions and views on here.

I have lots of agendas.

People like a traditional element at a traditional ceremony.

It brings huge comfort to servicemen and their families- even if they don't believe the solemnity and tradition comforts them in a way a newer, made up form of recognition doesn't.

And of course you don't have to join in.

You could organise an alternative event in your area.

I have lots of agendas

Well, aren't you an iconoclastic rebel.

There are about 25 Lords Spiritual, I think, making up much less than 5% of the House of Lords. Most of them appear to do good things on various committees, have spent time in parishes dealing with real life problems faced by the communities they work in, and possibly have much more understanding of the issues than someone like, say, Lord Sugar.

Oh, is this your self-appointed mission in life? I think you've chosen the wrong place

Yeah, OP, if you want to discuss topical subjects there are websites that have whole sections dedicated to discussing anything and everything, find one of those.