Religion, the Church of England and State Ceremonies

[cakeorwine]

I know we have an established church. I get that. And that's probably the answer to this question.

I do feel uncomfortable with the role that religion - specifically the Church of England - plays in State Ceremonies.

Watching the Cenotaph events on Remembrance Sunday. A moving event - but it does have a lot of religious elements. Prayers, hymns and The Lord's Prayer.

I think that anything religious should stick to events that are just for people of that religion. Or if it is multi-faith, then involve other faiths.

Remembrance Sunday is a national event. Keep religion out of it and just stick to remembering the people who died.

Standards of behaviour were generally based on the principles of Christianity. Although the rejection of this it may explain why behaviour standards have deteriorated in recent times

No I’ve never heard of this. They weren’t at my school in the early 80’s, nor any of the schools l taught in for 27 years. No reference to the principles of Christianity. It just wasn’t there.

Some traditions:
Pancake day, the tradition to use up batter before Lent.
Mothers day in the UK, the 4th Sunday of Lent.
Valentines day, named after a Saint.
Football, players cross themselves and point heavenwards, or put their hands together and pray to the referee to avoid being booked or sent off.

Two of our school holidays are centred around Christianity and their associated bank holidays.

Then you've got saying/slangs which come from Christian origins without us realising!

We are entwined with a rich history of Christianity so even if people don't go to church, they are still often celebrating Christian traditions, sometimes without realising.

Personally I'm pagan/wiccan and recognise alot of these traditions are sourced from pagan origins, but that's not what this thread is about.

I’ve taught in 6 schools. Never saw it in any of them.

I prefer humanity to Christianity. If my dd was having Christianity shoved down her throat l would not be happy.

Who exactly has shamed you for not singing the national anthem? I won’t sing the national anthem for other reasons, absolutely nobody can shame me for that.

You have to stop thinking of the Church of England as a religion.

It’s an over 450 hundred year old piece of political theatre. It’s neither fully Protestant nor fully Catholic. It’s Elizabeth I’s religious compromise, a mildly reformist centre with a Catholic covering. Supporting the Church of England is seen as an act of patriotism rather than religious belief. Elizabeth herself declared she did not have any wish to ‘make windows into men’s souls’. You can believe what you want AND support the Church of England.

It’s existence has largely prevented extreme Christian ideology flourishing in the UK, which is partly what Elizabeth was after. As opposed to the US which has no state religion, and a clear divide between church and state, the US’s religious make up is much more extreme, ironically. There is no moderate national religious focus unlike the pretty much benign C of E.

I’m atheist yet all for keeping the Church of England as part of the national psyche.

I presume you don't reject the expected behaviour standards of Christianity, even if you don't believe in in the religion itself

I bet OP doesn't mind the bank holidays and the time off work, either. I used to have a manager who was a loudly proclaimed atheist but funnily enough he never worked Easter or Christmas.

It’s Elizabeth I’s religious compromise

And a very good one. Wasn't it 'Supreme Governor etc' rather than Head of the Church in England and people could make what they wanted of the 'etc,'?

I’m not interested in the expected behaviour of Christianity. It has no impact or place in my life. Why should it be allowed to hijack normal standards of humankind?

I know no Christians. I know lots of compassionate, caring people though. Who have their own moral code, not one dictated by an out of date system.

RE teaches about the 6 major world religions, not just Christianity. I would say this is a good thing, surely?

ArseInTheCoOpWindow, it could be argued that historically their moral code is learned from living in a society that at some point has had a religious component so the mores of living in that society rub off - I'm an atheist, but understand that the way I think about the world and my place in it comes from living in a society with a history of Christian religion.

I’m horrified by the attitude of the OP. The majority of the soldiers who died in ww1&2 were Christian and took comfort and found meaning in their beliefs. I am not Christian but this country is and that should be respected. I actually feel quite shocked and angered by the wrongness of this sentiment expressed despite having no personal stake in it at all (I don’t even have any Christian relatives). Have some respect OP and don’t whine about something that has nothing to do with you. Very ignorant post.

I think what made the OP worse was the fact she didn't realise we are a Christian country and appears to know zero about the history and traditions of the place she lives in.

Shops are open on a Sunday.

So anymore?

Or is that it?

I wouldn't say it hijacks it - more supports it

I don't know many who wouldn't be ok with most of the 10 commandments

Don't kill
Don't lie
Don't cheat
Don't steal
Don't covet
Respect parents
Treat others how you want to be treated

World would be a better place...

I've got a soft spot for the teachings of Jesus so I think YABU, OP.

If you read the OP, you will see that I say we have an Established Church.

I would debate whether we are still a Christian country - and what that actually means if many people in the UK are not actually Christian.

Of course, there are many things that people argue make this a Christian country.

Schools have to have an act of daily worship of a mainly Christian nature.
There are Bishops in the House of Lords.
Our Monarch swears an oath to defend The faith.
Our Monarch is crowned by The Archbishop of Canterbury
Our National Anthem asks God to save the King
We have prayers before every sitting of the Houses of Parliament.

Lots of legal and constitutional requirements to remind us that the Church of England plays a major role in society.

But does this role reflect the reality of modern Britain, its religious beliefs and its lack of religious beliefs?

Or is it an anachronism?

That's the hypocrisy of people who claim to be Christians (and other people who follow the 10 Commandments) when they don't follow those rules.

If I was offered the chance to have 2 bank holidays instead of Easter, then I would have no problem with that.