For welcoming Jennifer Anniston’s honesty about her struggle to have children

[RhubarbRocks]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63576100

As someone who went though multiple rounds of unsuccessful IVF in my late 30s and early 40s it’s good to see this normalised in the news. It sometimes feels very isolating when you can’t have children (not least here when it’s sometimes questioned why childless women are here - I joined during ivf and have stayed for all the other non child related chats!)

So not really an AIBU but maybe a question/observation about the assumptions we make about whether a woman does/doesn’t have children.

You are confusing me with someone else, I never mentioned IVF.

You're projecting yourself. You are the one who claimed Jolie, and her kids, and ground crew, and witnesses, somehow 'made it all up' simply because you are prejudiced against Jolie because she is 'different'.

Poor Brad Pitt! Being tricked by his wife so he has to go and get someone else knocked up to get what he wants. What a weird thing to post! You don’t know these people! You don’t knoow the ins and outs of their lives and what they talk about.

Also, I believe Angelina.

@JessicaTooManyRabbits no, but kids are expensive! You ideally want to be earning at least some money unless you have a partner who can support you and a child on their wage. And if you want maternity leave you normally need to work somewhere for at least a year, sometimes two. In my last job it was really hard to get a permanent contract, most people were bouncing between 6 month contracts, and I knew several women that were delaying TTC until they could get one (and some got pregnant pretty much the second they were permanently employed!)

I never said that I personally waited to be “well set up in a good career”, by the way, I actually didn’t meet my now-husband until my early 30s so I had nobody I could have had kids with until then. All I’m saying is that this idea that we could have all had kids in our 20s if we’d just wanted it enough is really unfair, not everyone’s life works out like that.

That's part of it. Don't leave meeting a good man to luck. Don't pretend you don't want a family and find a man to create that with.

A career is temporary but children and family last forever.
You are replaceable at work but you are not replaceable in your family.

But every single adopted child has gone through trauma. The removal of a birth parent for one. They may have been exposed to drugs, alcohol, DV in utero etc

Some may have been exposed to those things but not all Removal of birth parent not necessarily a trauma. You are going these children a disservice by putting them all into one category- they are individuals.

There is a huge stigma attached to women who don’t have children, whatever the reason might be.

I find this so depressing. As someone who dealt with infertility until I unexpectedly got pregnant at 41 I didn't really come across this TBH.

I was pretty open with people about not being able to have children and I received very few unhelpful and fatuous comments about it. One or two people mentioned adoption, but I said it wasn't for me. I think I was lucky that none of my friends, colleagues and family were arseholes about it.

I think people who make stupid comments are projecting and making it about themselves.

Unfortunately most of the women I know who prioritised finding a man to have kids with ASAP are the ones now going through divorce and custody battles with those men, because they rushed into marriage and kids with men that turned out not to be great for them. Not all, but most.

Some people get lucky and it all works out well within a very narrow timeframe, but plenty don’t.

I married early 20s, husband couldn't have children, we went on to decide as he was disabled it wouldn't be fair to bring children into the world who would lose a parent really in life (we knew he had a shorter life expectancy but not how long). He passed away when I was mid 30s, I met someone 2 years later, we want children. I'm now 40 and just experienced a miscarriage. This isn't about leaving it too late, it's about life happening and throwing things at you that you have no idea are going to happen. People really should stop judging!

They likely went to foster care before being adopted so had at least 3 families and the loss associated with that

Again you're wrong. My DD had one wonderful foster family to whom she formed a healthy attachment which she smoothly transferred to us, her mum and dad. She had learnt that people can be trusted.

I’m glad your daughter wasn’t affected by her experiences but it’s wrong to say she hasn’t experienced trauma

You're portraying yourself as some kind of expert! She didn't experience trauma - all she has ever known is love and security.

I’m so sorry for your losses. Thank you for sharing. ‘Life happening’ is exactly it and it’s really cruel to distil that down to ‘leaving it too late’ when you have no idea of someone’s individual circumstances.

In my mid 20s and 30s I had no money so how was I going to do egg freezing ‘just in case’? I got together with my husband at 36. Married at 38. TTC through the pandemic, no luck, by the time we qualified for investigations my AMH was too low so we did one private round of IVF. None of our families know. A couple of friends know. We got to embryo transfer and no positive test. So that’s that. Likelihood of us having children is slim now and I’m 42. But apparently this is me not ‘wanting it enough’ well no I didn’t want to get pregnant with some random’s baby at 25 just in case I didn’t meet a nice man, when I was almost unable to support myself let alone a baby.

Practically nobody in real life knows about what we’ve gone through and so I have to smile and demur when people make comments, say noncommittal things and change the subject. But no this wasn’t what I wanted. I’ve more come to terms with it now and my future plans would be harder with a child but I agree with JA, the ‘what if’ is excruciating and it must be even worse in the public eye.

Totally agree @IllDoItButOnlyForTheAttention - the other five in Friends are good, and that just serves to show how JA is in a league of her own in comic acting. She's ahead of them all. Absolutely bang on timing/delivery pretty much straight from the first.

Also agree she can deliver a good dramatic performance too.

Absolutely not a cop out. We struggled to concieve, but got there in the end. But we very much decided adoption wasn't for us, we also at the time witnessed a family member going through the process and that cemented our decision.
Adoption isn't for everybody and it's beneficial for everyone involved to be realistic about that.

Rebel Wilson is 43 and also has spoken at length about her fertility issues. She's had every type of fertility surgery, as well as going through all of the treatments. I don't know how you can brand for who it's acceptable to use adoption/surrogacy and who it isn't, unless you know their medical history and as said just because a woman is a celebrity doesn't mean that we should be privy to that.

Not everyone wants to adopt and personally, I'm delighted that someone as wealthy and high profile as Jennifer chose NOT to hire out another woman's womb to make her a baby.

I agree that she's doing a huge service to all women by speaking out on this, often hidden, side of life. Most people who try and fail with IVF choose not to speak about this painful episode of their lives, so huge kudos to her for doing so.

But rushing it goes against what I said, which is to do it early and prioritise it. If you start being honest that you do want to settle down and have a family in your early twenties then it's easier to get to that stage by mid to late twenties.

I mean either you prioritise it or you don't and if you don't you risk not having it. It's exactly the same with career, which I don't really have, because I never wanted it, never worked hard at it, result being I don't have it.

Her mantra has been to say women are still a legitimate persons with or without children and/or marriage. Something that unfortunately still needs to be said in this day and age. Assumptions and judgement abound, of which she.is testament too. Now she is beyond the point of being able to get pregnant she is free to put to bed the persistent accusations of career before motherhood and speculation of an impending pregnancy. Poor woman, given her treatment by the media, BP and AJ she deserves some peace.

@JessicaTooManyRabbits

omg!!

no children or man!!

how will she survive??!

@FirewomanSam

I’m just saying, nobody other than women who career was important to made out that women had to have a good career before they started to have children - so it’s not really fair for them to say they were being told to do that. If anyone was telling them that it was themselves or other women like them.

When I had my first kid we didn’t have much money, over time DH has earner more. That’s how it is for many. Usually when you are in your 20’s and have kids you struggle financially for a bit. That that is a barrier to having kids is false - it’s just not what some people want.

Also the idea of their being a single suitable man who you only happen to meet in your 30’s is romantic and all, but the reality is had you want to really go for it you probably could have met a man you liked enough in your 20’s.

Again nothing wrong with being picky or wanting a career, BUT we shouldn’t pretend things just happened to work out so some women can’t have kids when in many of those cases they out it off for career or pickiness about men - valid reasons to put it off but you just have to accept if you do then kids may not be an option. At least the chance is lowered as a result of their/your own actions and choices. It wasn’t just something that happened like a mystery.

I agree. Now she is beyond the age where people ‘expect’ you to have children she can discuss her struggles without people saying things like just adopt, it’ll happen as soon as you forget about it, my cousin was told she was infertile and now she has four children etc and can talk about her experience.

@pastafairyan

whos really thinking about marriage and kids and “settling down” in their early twenties though ?!

you’re practically a kid yourself at that age!

most early twenty somethings have their mind on their next big night and what they’re gonna wear, travel, uni/post grad, their career, houseshares and flat mates, Ibiza with their pals. Etc etc

which is exactly how it should be!

Also the idea of their being a single suitable man who you only happen to meet in your 30’s is romantic and all, but the reality is had you want to really go for it you probably could have met a man you liked enough in your 20’s.

I’m getting quite offended by all the assumptions you keep making about my life. I did meet a man in my early twenties, if you must know. Thought he wanted to get married and have kids with me. But he became abusive and made my life a misery instead.

@LuckySantangelo35

Well the point is it was important to her and yet she made the choices she made which led to it (probably) not happening. Which hopefully doesn’t make her too sad.

@JessicaTooManyRabbits
@JennyNotFromTheBlock

the patriarchy is alive and well in you two

Fuck off with your "just adopt". Children who have been through hell and are up for adoption are not a solution to someone's fertility problems. Adoption is not an easy option. You don't pop to Argos and select a child when IVF fails.

People like you are the ones who rile childless people like me with your ignorance. Piss off and learn a bit more about the grief of inertility, childlessness and have some empathy. While you're there, go look at the adoption boards and how hard it is to adopt, the process, when and how people are turned down, the breakdown in relationships with children and partners which can happen and how it's not all roses and teddy bears. It's an enormous shift in the lives of all involved.