To think it's bonkers that having the Cup in Qatar

[Jux]

Will make any difference to anything other than giving the dosh to Qatar and Qatari business.

It made no difference to human rights abuses when we had the Olympics in China so why does anyone expect this to be any different?

It's Wrong on sooo many levels

I'm not a big fan of Saudi/Qatar/UAE 's attitude towards workers' rights/ womens' rights. Their treatment has been abhorrent. There is no doubt in this.

However, why are we up in arms? what RIGHT do we have to be up in arms?

The UK is one the biggest seller of weapons to a country that is bombing its poor neighbour for no good reason:

"The UK is one of Saudi Arabia's leading arms suppliers, along with the US. It is also a major supplier of arms to the United Arab Emirates, another country in the coalition that is bombing Yemen." - CAAT.ORG.UK

Why aren't we complaining about this? We live to complain about these countries (funnily enough they're not white!) but we looove taking their money and letting them buy our football teams. Our Aristocracy are their BFFs. We love being 'expats' in their countries and earning ridiculous amounts of money.

Let's face it - We're hypocrites.

...and don't even get me started on our relationship with China.

Fair enough about the armbands. It was more the posters equating this with taking a knee that I objected to.

I think some non-black players do join in taking a knee.

Well said.

Also, the UK is failings its climate change targets, which contributes to disasters like the floods in Pakistan. But no one cares.

Arm bands aren't enough they need shirts with messages on

Of course, but it's very convenient isn't it.

with all the commenting protesting and letter writing i'm asuming you're up to, awareness raising and all that, I'm quite surprised you have time to post here.

Or are you just trying to make some kind of point?

Fans are being paid to attend in exchange for positive feedback

www.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/04/england-and-wales-fans-being-paid-to-promote-world-cup-from-qatar

can you provide any info on this?

I don't know why there isnt an organized boycott by the fans
Presumably some of the revenue Qatar expect to gain is ultimately from advertising if people state their intention to not watch, this money will be impacted?
This is the sort of thing we did in the apartheid era

I am not a football fan so pointless me doing this. Or maybe this is already happening?

I'm wondering about all the posters saying things like

Also, the UK is failings its climate change targets, which contributes to disasters like the floods in Pakistan. But no one cares.

But people are taking action. And talking about this and a billion other things.

Have I questioned your professed campaigning, despite you posting here too?

So why the sly digs at me?

I put my money where my mouth is, suffice to say.

I am not a football fan so pointless me doing this. Or maybe this is already happening?

I was at a footy stadium (Düsseldorf) on Saturday. There was a massive banner #BoycottQatar2022. Fan made (professional huge banner across several blocks of seats) and presumably allowed in by the club. There were several in other stadia and i fully expect a lot of fans won't watch or join in with events.
I know a lot of my friends, and fans of other clubs are concentrating on non-league, 2nd teams, women's teams and other events here in Germany.

John Oliver summed it up quite well: he deplores the event being where it is, but as a fan will still watch on TV because he's a fan.

Have I questioned your professed campaigning, despite you posting here too?
So why the sly digs at me?
I put my money where my mouth is, suffice to say.

No. I'm interested what your actual point is.

Point about what?

I think some non-black players do join in taking a knee.

Whole teams are taking the knee

Standing or speaking at an individual level against issues you are aware of doesn't make you a hypocrite because your country has made decisions/participates in disagreeable/nasty/abhorrent (pick an adjective) practices.

You do understand that there can be people who are disgusted and outspoken about abhorrent practices in their own country and others, whilst their country possesses a government or large corporations that participate in practices such as supplying arms or becoming involved in wars on incredibly questionable or illegal grounds?

We don't hold a referendum on every decision that our government make. And we're obviously not in any way participatory in UK weapons companies deciding to sign arms contracts.

All we can do is speak out and change our behaviour at an individual level to the best of our ability, means and awareness of said issues.

100%. Fifa have always claimed to have a "no politics in football" stance. You can argue about how robust they have been in enforcing that, but for the most part they've never really taken into account the morality of nations when it comes to hosting/participating in tournaments, nor have they claimed to.

If they started doing that the list of nations who couldn't play would be longer than the list that could.

It's also interesting to see western society once again appointing itself as the moral police of the world from atop our mountain of hypocrisy.

100%. Fifa have always claimed to have a "no politics in football" stance. You can argue about how robust they have been in enforcing that, but for the most part they've never really taken into account the morality of nations

FIFA are corrupt, we know it, they know we know it, and there have been pathetically tiny and few moves to dig that out.

Everything is political. Every single thing. FIFA could have said: yes, we're doing this to encourage football in Qatar and hopefully to open their minds to fewer HR abuses etc etc. Or they could literally do their utmost to keep politics out of it. But they can't so here we are.

To be honest I don’t follow football closely enough to know that only black players took the knee (is that what you’re saying)?

I'm a season ticket holder and attend EFL games most Saturdays. For a while, there's a been a 'stand up to racism' campaign running, this was well supported. However when it comes to taking the knee (and there are some black players who don't do this, they think it's just symbolism) there is often boo-ing, it seems to hit the wrong note.

I think taking the knee works best when it is a one-off (or maybe annually, or on significant dates/matches) and it really works best when everyone on the pitch joins in.
(i think there is an argument to be made that players who don't want to do it should be given the chance to stay in the dug-out until it's over but that just highlights them.)

Football fans are like everyone else, some will agree, some will disagree and many will just ignore it or don't care. I do think the national FAs, UEFA and FIFA need to give clubs and players (and refs) more room to leave the pitch when racist incidents happen. An example (not with racism) is here in Germany: when the fans light too many pyros, or any, the ref can stop the match and take the players off the pitch. One of our away matches was stopped and the match awarded to the away team when a spectator threw a plastic cup at the assistant referee and it got him on the head. This would send a much better message.

What would really really help football (men's) is to tackle the homophobia. And make it easier for gay players to come out if they want to, and to support this.

Not sure how people thought it wouldn't be so.. all bloody hypocrites

FIFA isn't corrupt. FIFA is a non-profit organisation that develops and administers football tournaments and as such it is free to set its own governance procedures and rules for membership/participation. Their mission has always been to develop and grow their own brand of association soccer not to act as morality police or drivers of social change. If you/countries are not happy with how FIFA administer themselves and their competitions you are completely free to not participate in them and to set up a competitor organisation.

Individuals within FIFA may well be corrupt, but that is a separate issue entirely. FIFA will have policy/procedures on how to deal with corruption internally (which may not be to your liking) and individual countries have laws to deal with it externally. If there is evidence of corruption then it is up to the individual nation to investigate and prosecute a la the USA in 2015. I'm not sure why we would expect there to be any more of a concerted effort to root out corruption in FIFA than in any other organisation or business?

When I said FIFA adhere to a "no politics in football" stance I didn't mean it in terms of internal decision making but in terms of national perspectives. Of course there will be lots of politics involved in the awarding of tournaments and contracts, as there is in virtually all businesses, but when it comes to nations trying to impose their views/laws/opinions on FIFA then that's when the "no politics in football" comes into play, and quite forcefully too. That's why nations like Qatar/China/Russia were forced into making concessions on their laws in order to host WC events and be far more lenient with visitors than they usually would, and also why FIFA haven't ever commented or tried to ban western countries for their warmongering around the globe.

I was actually very surprised that FIFA banned Russia but I suspect that was more to do with administration/organisational and financial concerns than with any real problem with Russia invading Ukraine, which again is their prerogative.

No interest in football at all

No most football fans are not terribly bright

That's so weird

There is evidence that FIFA are institutionally corrupt and has weak governance which puts its ability to carry out its stated mission at risk. The money lost in bribes could pay for grassroots football in developing counties.

You may have a separate view about football and politics; and prefer an approach where sport is apolitical. But your post does rather read as being apologistic for an appalling corrupt organisation. We know that at least $28 million was lost in bribes. The corruption matters .How many football pitches could that have created? How many children have lost the ability to participate?

The Guardian published a very carefully worded article highlighting the murkiness around the decision to send the World Cup to Qatar. We should challenge corruption wherever we we it- but this feels like its on a whole different scale