5 people have raised ADHD with me

[PetitP]

And I'm getting a bit fed up with it. My son is 4 (was 3 a week ago). He is incredibly active, won't stop talking, won't stop running, but will listen when I talk to him and can focus for long periods of time. 2 people at one of his hobbies, and 3 other parents have mentioned him having ADHD traits to me and it is starting to irritate me. I asked both of his nurseries what they thought and they have both said they don't see anything that makes them think ADHD and that he's just very 'busy'. He is well behaved, he's just got SO MUCH ENERGY. AIBU to think that a lot of people have no idea what ADHD actually is? And to also think it's rude to tell someone you don't know very well that their child might have ADHD? Or am I being a bit sensitive here? My brother has ADHD and really struggles with it, so I am incredibly sympathetic and know a bit about it, as of course I grew up with him. He was diagnosed as an adult. Just annoying that so many people think they have to label things as neurodiverse without realising that children are different to one another.

Thats incorrect. Some do grow out of it. If you read my earlier post I've quoted some sources if you wish to look.

Our brains arent fully developed until our our twenties and things can change.

The DD of a family friend has lots of the symptoms of ADHD in girls. This friend is concerned about her daughter and has apologised to me about her in the past.

How can I gently suggest she look into the possibility of ADHD? Of course Im not a professional and don't want to offend the friend.

But equally I want to support our friend and her DD and ultimately I want them to access any professional advice that might help.

Your own link has just proven my point.

Some kids do grow out of it.

Yes Im surprised people are surprised your consultant said this. We work with a range of psychiatrists/psychologists in my job for children (CAMHS) and this has been discussed many times for various children

Also a growing recognition with CAMHS that quite a few ASD diagnoses are misdiagnoses and should have been attachment disorder diagnoses.

The way people talk about neurodevelopmental issues is as if everything is known and factual about it. Its still a developing area of understanding and there are huge areas of grey and overlapping symptoms with other issues. None which can be 'tested' for as such.

@Willyoujustbequiet that's interesting so you believe if people learn to manage their condition successfully to an extent where things become more manageable they have outgrown it. I personally would still say that person has adhd it's just having less of an impact.

If it’s based on ‘need’ then why are the children who throw chairs and injure others offered one two one - yet those who can’t read or write by year 5 are offered no support?
Funding doesn’t magically appear.

I'd assume people are trying to be helpful. Regardless of the intention or what you think about their comments, I would take a look at the strategies for helping ND kids, as it might make your life easier, even if he's nt with lots of energy.

People want/need a diagnosis because it opens up avenues to meds & support at school but the simple stuff also works really well. It will help you manage his current needs if you know how executive control works, how managing transitions helps, that sort of thing, anything that helps with emotional disregulation as that's what childhood is for, to learn & develop strategies that will serve them well as adults.

BTW, hyper-focus is an adhd thing too, the difference is that the interests change, sometimes in rapid succession.

Weirdly, if you know people with dementia, learning about executive control also helps with understanding their minds!

I'm an unmedicated middle-aged woman & making my life more adhd-friendly has helped loads. House is much calmer!

Because, sadly, DC who display VCB and disrupt the class, whether they have a diagnosis or not, are more likely to have support (and funding) forthcoming than those whose SEND displays in ways that mean they don’t display VCB, whether they have a diagnosis or not.

Both can be supported and receive additional funding, but the system as it is at the moment means parents have to fight for support (and funding) far more if they have a child with SEN who is compliant &/or masks at school.

Nothing to do with whether the pupil has a diagnosis or not, everything to do with how their SEN presents.

No one said funding magically appears .

‘I’m familiar with ADHD traits. A close family member has it. I have no concerns about my son.’

That tells them to wind their necks in and stop diagnosing him as if they have some expert eye that you don’t.

@Willyoujustbequiet
No, you said 'many will grow out of it' whereas my link said only 9% show no symptoms as adults. That means 91% still continue to have symptoms. I am taking issue with your 'many'

@Willyoujustbequiet
I wish you would link these studies you are referencing.

I think I found the Klein one, but it doesn’t say what posted so not entirely sure?

In this study the 22% refers to the % of children diagnosed as having ADHD at a mean age of 8 years (probands) that have worse educational, occupational, economic, social, and marital outcomes and higher rates of ongoing ADHD, antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), substance use disorders (SUDs), adult-onset psychiatric disorders, psychiatric hospitalizations, and incarcerations than non-ADHD comparison participants at a mean age of 41 years.

It isn’t saying that 22% of children diagnosed with ADHD at a mean age of 8 no longer have ADHD.

It’s important to note that this study had an extremely small & restricted sample size of 135 white men with ADHD and 136 white men without ADHD. So can hardly be extrapolated to everyone with ADHD.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23070149/
Abstract

CONTEXT Prospective studies of childhood attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) have not extended beyond early adulthood. OBJECTIVE To examine whether children diagnosed as having ADHD at a mean age of 8 years (probands) have worse educational, occupational, economic, social, and marital outcomes and higher rates of ongoing ADHD, antisocial personality disorder (ASPD), substance use disorders (SUDs), adult-onset psychiatric disorders, psychiatric hospitalizations, and incarcerations than non-ADHD comparison participants at a mean age of 41 years. DESIGN Prospective, 33-year follow-up study, with masked clinical assessments. SETTING Research clinic. PARTICIPANTS A total of 135 white men with ADHD in childhood, free of conduct disorder, and 136 men without childhood ADHD (65.2% and 76.4% of original cohort, respectively). MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES Occupational, economic, and educational attainment; marital history; occupational and social functioning; ongoing and lifetime psychiatric disorders; psychiatric hospitalizations; and incarcerations. RESULTS Probands had significantly worse educational, occupational, economic, and social outcomes; more divorces; and higher rates of ongoing ADHD (22.2% vs 5.1%, P < .001), ASPD (16.3% vs 0%, P < .001), and SUDs (14.1% vs 5.1%, P = .01) but not more mood or anxiety disorders (P = .36 and .33) than did comparison participants. Ongoing ADHD was weakly related to ongoing SUDs (ϕ = 0.19, P = .04), as well as ASPD with SUDs (ϕ = 0.20, P = .04). During their lifetime, probands had significantly more ASPD and SUDs but not mood or anxiety disorders and more psychiatric hospitalizations and incarcerations than comparison participants. Relative to comparisons, psychiatric disorders with onsets at 21 years or older were not significantly elevated in probands. Probands without ongoing psychiatric disorders had worse social, but not occupational, functioning. CONCLUSIONS The multiple disadvantages predicted by childhood ADHD well into adulthood began in adolescence, without increased onsets of new disorders after 20 years of age. Findings highlight the importance of extended monitoring and treatment of children with ADHD.

@Willyoujustbequiet

”Braaten published by Harvard”

I cannot find any published study by Braaten showing that children “grow out of ADHD” on PubMed.

Unless there is another Braaten at Harvard that studies ADHD? A twin?

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Braaten%20EB%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=25237747

I would suggest reading ‘Scattered Minds’ by Gabor Mate. A very insightful book, which might give you more information in case anyone else suggests the same in future.

Richard Barkley study found between 14 - 50% resolution by ages 21 to 27.

Again cannot find a Richard Barkley, but found a Russell Barkley and he basically says that diagnostic criteria are not very good for diagnosing adult ADHD and that accounts for some adults who were diagnosed with ADHD as children as not showing up as ADHD as adults. He hasn’t said it’s because they’re cured….or grew out of it….or it’s resolved.

”Abstract

Objective: While it is increasingly recognized that attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) persists into adulthood, there is no consensus on diagnostic criteria for adult ADHD. In this article the authors describe and contrast competing approaches for diagnosis of adult ADHD used in clinical and research practice.

Method: The authors review the Wender Utah criteria, DSM criteria, and laboratory assessment strategies for adult ADHD. Advantages and disadvantages of each approach are described, and recommendations are made as a basis for clinical assessment and future research.

Results: Both the Wender Utah criteria and DSM-based approaches identify significantly impaired ADHD adults with neurocognitive, biological, and treatment response patterns similar to pediatric ADHD patients. The Wender Utah criteria established the need for retrospective childhood diagnosis and recognize developmental differences in adult symptom expression. The Wender Utah criteria fail to identify patients with predominantly inattentive symptoms, exclude some patients with significant comorbid psychopathology, and diverge significantly from the DSM conception of ADHD. The DSM criteria have never been validated in adults, do not include developmentally appropriate symptoms and thresholds for adults, and fail to identify some significantly impaired adults who are likely to benefit from treatment. There are insufficient scientific data to justify use of laboratory assessment measures, including neuropsychological tests and brain imaging, in diagnosing adult ADHD.

Conclusions: Adult ADHD remains a clinical diagnosis. Clinicians should be flexible in application of the current ADHD criteria to adults. Additional research is required to validate adult diagnostic criteria.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15514392/

And more recently
Abstract

Objective: To describe adult outcome of people with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) diagnosed in childhood and its several key predictors via a review of 7 North American controlled prospective follow-up studies: Montreal, New York, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH), Berkeley, and 7-site Multimodal Treatment Study of Children With ADHD (MTA).

Method: All studies were prospective and followed children with a diagnosis of ADHD and an age- and gender-matched control group at regular intervals from childhood (6-12 years of age) through adolescence into adulthood (20-40 years of age), evaluating symptom and syndrome persistence, functional outcomes, and predictors of these outcomes.

Results: The rates of ADHD syndrome persistence ranged from 5.7% to 77%, likely owing to varying diagnostic criteria and the source of information (self-report vs informant report) across the studies. However, all studies observed high rates of symptomatic persistence ranging from 60% to 86%. The 7 studies were largely consistent in finding that relative to control groups, research participants with childhood-diagnosed ADHD had significant impairments in the areas of educational functioning, occupational functioning, mental health, and physical health as well as higher rates of substance misuse, antisocial behavior, and unsafe driving. The most consistently observed predictors of functional outcomes included ADHD persistence and comorbidity, especially with disruptive behavior disorders.

Conclusion: Childhood ADHD has high rates of symptomatic persistence, which is associated with negative functional outcomes. Characteristics that predict these negative outcomes, such as comorbid disruptive behavior disorders, may be important targets for intervention.”
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34116167/

Just smile fondly and say "Yes, his brain is so active because he has a genius level IQ. Must rush, it's time for his Mandarin class".

@Willyoujustbequiet
But the academic literature on the subject also supports this. The leading studies quote different figures some saying 50%, some 40% but even the most conservative figure acknowledges that a minimum of 10 -15% completely outgrow it with no symptoms whatsoever and over 30% would no longer obtain a diagnosis as symptoms are only residual. Given the substantial numbers affected then signifcant numbers do indeed outgrow it based on the research figures.

Citations? I’ve done the best I could with the clues you left, but cannot find these remarkable studies amongst the leading studies on adhd?

Other people mentioned, not in a nasty way, that my one of my DC was an introvert, liked to do things his own way. They didn't know at the time but they were "seeing" my DC's Autistic symptoms without meaning to refer to that ifyswim. He did eventually get a diagnosis.

I don't think it's helpful for people to make passing comments. No. But it's something I wouldn't ignore completely. I'll just keep an eye on it.

@Willyoujustbequiet you say it’s been proven without doubt that people outgrow ADHD. But I don’t understand how one could know this. Do you?

I have ADHD, diagnosed as a teenager. I 100% still have it now but it affects me differently to how it originally manifested. If I was assessed now they would class me as not having it. Because I have spent a lifetime working to change those negative behavioural patterns. It doesn’t mean I don’t have it. Just means I work really hard to manage it

By other people they are probably referring to professions and not completely inappropriate laypeople

I have ADHD as do all three of my children, and half of my nieces and nephews. 3 out of 4 of my siblings. It is much more hereditary than first thought. One in 10 people have it. Your extreme negative reaction to people suggesting is rather offensive. Would you be so quick to deny if people thought he might be left handed? People with ADHD are very good at concentrating, hyperfocus is a symptom. It is switching between tasks at will that is difficult.

Given that ADHD is hereditary, if I had a sibling diagnosed with it and then FIVE separate people mentioned the possibility, I think I'd be looking into it.

Please don't misquote me. I said nothing of the sort.

But we have been discussing ADHD not ASD so that's irrelevant.

Especially since hyper focus can be a feature of adhd.

DS has been largely off radar for adhd because he's been well behaved and can focus. We've wondered for various reasons but no one else seemed concerned so we haven't done anything. He sounds exactly like the Ops son in the first post.

Thats changed significantly in recent months and its very apparent there is now a problem. Age 8.

Interestingly his school report reads identically with DH and a percieved issue with DH's behaviour came out at exactly age 8.

We think that up to this point DS has been able to regulate and manage because he's been so hyper focused and interested in things. And as he gets older his brain is almost running away and ahead of his peers and thats where problems are kicking in as he's no longer getting the level of stimulation he needs when there's been the jump to Yr 3 and more academic focus and sitting at desks.

Equally this could work in reverse with adults who find a lifestyle that allows them to accommodate their adhd rather than the adhd disappearing.

I love these threads because everyone suggests witty reorts they'd never have the guts to use in real life.