Problem with DD violin teacher

[MarkyMarky]

DD 7 started violin lessons in sept and I don’t feel she has made much progress. I encourage her to practise most days but the noise is atrocious. I contacted the violin teacher to ask why it’s so bad. The violin teacher basically said in not so many words that we must be patient and the violin takes time as it’s a very difficult instrument and implied that maybe she needs to practise more. This rubbed me up the wrong way as we are already practicing.

however DH is an accomplished cellist and said it must be the teacher as he’s musical and knows how to played stringed instruments. He said DD should be using her left hand fingers by now and making a ‘half decent’ sound.

I contacted the teacher again and said I’d appreciate more detail as what is covered in lessons as I wasn’t satisfied. She has ignored me so I contacted the local music service who basically said it’s down to the teacher to liaise directly with us, I explained that she was ignoring us.

I spoke with the school who said the same thing, the teacher needs to speak to us as there’s no-one else who will be able to help us.

AIBu to now make a complaint as we are not being listened to and we are paying a fortune for lessons?

I'd argue that at 7, that desire to learn and improve can only be fostered by lessons a child actually enjoys. And I disagree that having fun and learning are mutually exclusive.

I didn’t say they were. It’s possible to have enjoyable lessons in which you actually learn to play the violin rather than fiddling around in a group.

You'd hope so!

Sorry, but you sound like a nightmare parent!

I still think the OP's DD is too young and too new to the instrument for a more focused approach to be needed right now.

When you say "she should be using her left hand fingers by now", do you mean that your daughter has literally not been taught any notes yet, and is just sawing away on the four open strings???

Ifso, then absolutely, you're right to complain. All she's currently doing is exactly what she'd be doing if she'd had no lessons at all.

But that's the problem. From what OP says, her DD hasn't been taught ANY NOTES AT ALL. After 2 months of lessons, that's pathetic.

?? Do you play the violin?

It is standard for string instruments to spend some time with open strings only. Depending on the instrument and methodology it can take shorter or longer, but it is perfectly normal thing to do.

You need to get an ear for their different sounds, names and written form, holding the instrument, right hand technique, bow technique, sound, rhythm, fluency.

My guitar teacher let me sing a song and use open strings as a bass line in the same stage.
With violin, the hearing and working towards the sound is even more important.

I know that with recorder, children can learn a new note each lesson, but it comes with different notes requiring different level of general technique. Strings have different learning curve

No it's definitely not "standard". The kid should at least be playing Twinkle Twinkle by now. Twinkle Twinkle is the standard for total beginners because you move up and down in tones and can easily learn the placement of fingers on the board (because it goes 3,2,1 etc).

I don't play guitar so can't comment there.

This is not standard at all and it sounds like the teacher is more of a generalist music teacher than a violin teacher.

Also, where did OP say her DD is learning proper bow technique?

If DD's hand and wrist are in perfect alignment with the bow in a drop hold and her left perfectly tensile under the neck, then DD would be producing a lovely clear sound. But if the sound she produces is not good, then she's not doing any of that, she's just sawing away, and has not been taught anything.

Also how will DD get her left hand placement right unless she is producing notes?

definitely find a proper teacher.

And what qualifications to teach the violin do you have?!

Is AIBU the right place for this OP?
isn’t there an education or music education board in mumsnet where violin teachers might answer you, including Suzuki violin teachers?

No formal qualifications, but I played for many years (before a severe injury to my right wrist) and led a children's orchestra.

You sound incredibly pushy OP.

Your child is 7. Ease up a little.

Some people think OP may be right So perhaps she should post on a board where teachers answer.

I played violin myself, from the age of 7 to 16. And can confirm it's a tricky instrument! I'm surprised your expert DH isn't more encouraging!

She's 7, been playing 2 and a bit months. Even being generous, that's maybe 10 lessons, half an hour each. 5 hours of instruction, and a bit of unguided practise in between.
What on earth happened to just letting kids have a bit of fun with music?! So what if she's not a prodigy? She's 7. Lighten up.

The lessons sound perfect for beginner 7 year olds. Sounds like they are learning the fundamentals in a fun, age appropriate way, and it's only been a few weeks. YABVU.

And 68 pounds a term is a fortune? 😂😂😂

Good grief... if you think £68 a term for lessons is "paying a fortune" then you're in for a nasty shock.

I paid £35 for a single 1 to 1 lesson last week for DD for a new instrument she wanted a bit of help with, and I reckoned that was pretty cheap.

The violin teacher you have is also extremely well qualified.

Violin is incredibly hard to learn to play well in the early stages.

Even things like piano, most children take 1-2 years before doing Grade 1. An exceptionally musical child might manage it in under a year.

I think you are being very unrealistic.

It is standard.
The teacher has several respected qualifications in violin teaching as OP has even said herself.
In order to play twinkle twinkle on the violin you need good secure bow hold, ability to read music, knowledge of 1st, 2nd and 3rd finger. All of this will not yet have been covered yet in only 6 or 7 group lessons.
Signed,
String teacher.

I often wonder if teachers of other subjects get these entirely fabricated deadlines and goals pressed upon them by parents with no abilities or qualifications in the subject eh DD HAS BEEN IN RECEPTION FOR 7 WEEKS WHY HASNT SHE LEARNT TRIGONOMETRY YET DH SAYS HE WAS ON QUANTUM PHYSICS BY AGE 2 SHALL I COMPLAIN TO THE LEA

Not sure you're correct for all teaching.

I learnt the violin and we did get onto fingers very quickly-I think by the second or third lesson.
My ds learnt the violin and far more emphasis was put on technique at the beginning. I think he was still on open strings for 2-3 months, but a lot more emphasis about how he held the bow and the violin. It meant a slower start, but once he started fingering he moved forward very quickly.

I found that when I got to grade 4/5 my technique really held me back and it was too much effort (as a teen) to relearn it so I gave up.

Ah, absolutely no qualifications to teach violin. In common with a small number of other people who play an instrument to a good standard, including the OP’s husband, you feel free to criticise what sounds like a very good teacher. Have you ever taught beginner violinists in groups? I have and it is not easy. A good bow technique is fundamental. The teacher will certainly not allow “sawing on open strings” but will be encouraging long bows with the children listening to the sound they are making. Twinkle Twinkle really is not as easy as you think as the children need to be able to read music fairly fluently and make their own notes so that they are perfectly in tune. If they have not learned how to use the bow properly, they really will be “sawing.”

She doesn’t sound like a particularly good teacher to me, why has she not advised the OP that if her DD really wants to play the violin she needs private lessons. Group lessons are useful addition to private but on their own they’re, at best, simply an introduction.

You don’t need to be able to read music to play Twinkle or to play in tune. In Russia, E.Europe and E.Asia, where it’s standard to start aged 3-5, students learn pieces by ear while concentrating in the fundamentals of technique.

@Mirabai, l notice that you have had a lot to say about how the violin is taught in other parts of the world. It obviously would there - or does it? My very musical daughter had a friend from Moscow. She was always harping on about how much better the Russian system was but was not a very good musician. In the Far East, there is a lot of pressure placed on parents and children to start lessons at a very young age and to practise intensely. Sometimes it works really well but more often than not, children get to grade 8 at a young age with no real understanding of the music and give up because it is too much hard work. A music examiner told me that some of the poorest players he examined were in the Far East. I have mixed feelings about the Suzuki system. It can work really well but, as a Western music teacher with 35+ years’ experience, I stand by what works for my pupils and me.

Oh, and those musicians from the Far East who give up never to touch their instrument again have lost all enthusiasm and enjoyment of music. Very sad.