Problem with DD violin teacher

[MarkyMarky]

DD 7 started violin lessons in sept and I don’t feel she has made much progress. I encourage her to practise most days but the noise is atrocious. I contacted the violin teacher to ask why it’s so bad. The violin teacher basically said in not so many words that we must be patient and the violin takes time as it’s a very difficult instrument and implied that maybe she needs to practise more. This rubbed me up the wrong way as we are already practicing.

however DH is an accomplished cellist and said it must be the teacher as he’s musical and knows how to played stringed instruments. He said DD should be using her left hand fingers by now and making a ‘half decent’ sound.

I contacted the teacher again and said I’d appreciate more detail as what is covered in lessons as I wasn’t satisfied. She has ignored me so I contacted the local music service who basically said it’s down to the teacher to liaise directly with us, I explained that she was ignoring us.

I spoke with the school who said the same thing, the teacher needs to speak to us as there’s no-one else who will be able to help us.

AIBu to now make a complaint as we are not being listened to and we are paying a fortune for lessons?

It’s been two months!! We’re a very musical family. When our kids were at primary school and we went to concerts, even the ones who’d been playing the violin for a couple of years sounded pretty unpleasant to listen to, it’s the nature of learning the violin, ie it takes a long time to sound anywhere near decent. Sounds like your DH is not actually that knowledgeable.

Not that OP is listening to anything said on here, but the early stages of learning an instrument feel painfully slow.
My kids learnt the flute around the same age. I videod them each month (could not face weekly) and after about 6 months we could hear a change. A year on seemed amazing.
But still after 8 weeks I am surprised OP's child is not performing a solo at the Royal Albert Hall

Oh my lord!

Have you any idea what a dipABRSM and an LRSM are???
They're diplomas! They're really high qualifications and definitely qualify a teacher to teach an instrument.

Everything you've said about how your dd is being taught is absolutely spot on for learning a violin from absolute beginner.

I took violin lessons for the first time in 6th form college - I was 16/17.
It was a group lesson, but we didn't need the reading-music bits. But the holding the violin and the bow and playing the open strings did take time! We had sheets of paper explaining how to do it, and for the first few months, our main lesson was holding the violin and bowing the open strings. It's a heavy instrument, too, if you're small and not used to it!

This has to be a reverse or wind up

@MarkyMarky Your child is enjoying these lessons and getting the basics right. Don’t suck the joy out of it.

my nine-year-old has just started trumpet. She’s older and picking it up quickly with one to one’s but the early days were very much about keeping her cheeks in.

yes she has started playing Hot Cross Buns but it sounds like mutant farting. Plus less complex than violin.

I think you should give it another couple of weeks. Your daughter’s violin genius will unfurl soon enough.

In the meantime, I suggest you relax and treat yourself to some steak cut chips from M&S

I think your expectations are too high after just 2 months. As someone who learnt the violin at school it is very hard, it is not natural for everyone, it is harder than the cello. Maybe buy some ear plugs for the next few months 😉

You and your husband are a pair of know-it-alls and every teachers worst fucking nightmare!!

Gotta be a troll post. Surely no parents are this fucking dumb?!

Assuming this post is genuine, as an experienced musician and ex-instrumental teacher I would say

• As others have said, learning any instrument takes a long time
• Incorrect technique can cause long-term damage which can affect other activities such as using a computer, sports etc besides playing the instrument.
• You cannot play expressively and with attractive, meaningful phrasing without having the technical skills on the instrument and the knowledge of music in general to do so.
• The teacher’s letter to you sounds as if she is experienced and and has a good plan to develop the pupils’ playing at an appropriate pace.
• It is true that 1:1 lessons would probably produce faster results but some pupils love learning in a group with their friends.
• Most people are more suited to on or two particular instruments than others; At some point your Dd may try something else and prefer it. This can be a personality thing as much as a physical or preference thing The flautist Atarah Ben-Tovim has written a book on this.
• Please don’t take the enjoyment in music away from Dd as that will make her put in the work.

Agree with that. DD1 played the violin for a while and got to grade 3, but it was a bit of a struggle. Now she plays bass guitar and loves it. I would never have thought of it for her.
Op should stay open minded, be patient and encourage her DD to enjoy music.

OK well if she is doing group lessons rather than individual of course there is less progress….
Music teachers do differ massively in their approaches. On the one extreme, you get the one who insist on open strings for ages until posture, bow hold etc absolutely correct and won’t let the kid take Grade 1 until they are guaranteed a high distinction in the 140 range and have practised endlessly including all supporting tests ad inifintum. We had one of those for Grade 8 for one of my kids and it took 2 years on Grade 8 - she did do incredibly well in the actual exam but was bored out of her mind by then.
However, our main violin teacher is not like this. My 5 year olds couldn’t hold the bow properly but they could read music pretty well and actually all produced a good sound within weeks and have excellent hearing. No scratching here! They also learnt to read fluently age 4 and read heavy Russian literature by age 8 (I never stopped them doing that either although they wouldn’t have understood the in depth historical references). I never stopped them progress in music, neither did their violin teacher. The 10 year old who got a Distinction in his Grade 8 violin exam and 99 per cent in Grade 5 ABRSM music theory age 8 definitely still did not have perfect bowhold by the time he took Grade 8. He played beautifully though. There are definitely violin teachers who would have delayed his Grade 8 because of his bowhold and not perfect posture. Also, he never liked playing in the basic orchestras and a lot of them would tut tut because of that because he didn’t have “orchestra spirit” (basically happy to play really simple tunes and help others even if it is not extending for the child itself). Thankfully he developed that orchestra spirit just fine as a teen.
Get a 1 to 1 child let teacher and get your husband fully involved. Typically kids get as much out of it as you are willing to put into it

I think at 7 DD should be more violin focused .... hmmmm.

Get a f***g grip!!!!! You are the problem here.
Not the teacher.
Not your daughter.
Seriously, started in Sept. Still crap in Nov. Shocker.

Hoping this is a wind up. If not, your are being completely, utterly, ridiculous.

8 weeks! 8 weeks is all she’s been learning for! Have you tried playing the violin? It’s flippin hard and she’s only 7. I think you need to lower your extremely high expectations of your poor DD, I played it when I was 8, I practiced and after a couple of years I was still really bad at it, I also played the cello for 3 years and I detested it by the end from being pushed so hard by the teacher, I quit the second I could and it felt so good! i was good with music in general, I got a grade 3 on the saxophone and played the piano but string instruments are a whole different ball game and my parents never pushed me, it was all me. If you keep pushing her so hard she will learn to hate it rather than love it. Let your daughter be herself, just because DH is good at the cello doesn’t mean your DD will have a natural ability for it. Did she choose the violin? Or did you choose it for her?

Wow I bet it’s a barrel of laughs at your house. Your child isn’t some musical genius after 2 months (likely less than 10 hours individual time with teacher) and your blaming the teacher…really? This is the most entitled/middle class post I think I’ve ever read on here. YABEU! A few questions

why is it so important your child is good at
violin?

did/does your child even want to play (as I wouldn’t of I had this level of expectation from my parents)

Have you ever heard the phrase practice makes perfect?

are you this pedantic with everything in your child’s life?

Listen to yourself. Your 7 year old child has played for only 8 weeks.

The 10 year old who got a Distinction in his Grade 8 violin exam and 99 per cent in Grade 5 ABRSM music theory age 8 definitely still did not have perfect bowhold by the time he took Grade 8.

The problem with that is that it’s much harder to correct poor technique than it is to get the fundamentals right from the start. I’m sure you know bow hold is key to bow technique - good tone, control and string crossing etc.

There’s no excuse for not having a perfect bow hold by 10, the teacher just didn’t do their job. Some techniques start with the bow hold first.

I played violin for years and was awful at it despite daily practice. I got pleasure from it but alas it was not to be. My parents didn't blame the teacher.
I think you need to accept that your daughter may not be as talented as you think she is, she may not have inherited her dad's flare for music and the violin and cello are two completely different instruments.

“I was just looking at her website and she doesn’t even appear to have a teaching qualification. Just a degree, DipABRSM and LRSM.“

She wouldn’t have these qualifications if she did not understand a lot about music and if she were not a good musician herself. Someone with a teaching qualification might easily have fewer qualifications/know less about good violin playing.

So if you change teachers watch out that the teaching qualification is on top of the teacher having the best qualifications as a musician. Teaching qualifications may help but are not everything. Chopin used to give lessons, as did many great pianists, but they didn’t have teaching qualifications.

Her letter was all about getting fundamental technical aspects correct, and about building up an understanding of music. That shouldn’t be skipped.

When your husband says she “should be” playing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star by now, I wonder if he was thinking of a child being taught through the Suzuki method? I think this technique uses tunes more immediately - maybe another poster would know more. These lessons often start to y children off. If your DD had Suzuki lessons though you would need to go to all of them and learn a lot yourself and be with her for her practising.

Start tiny children off.

@Mirabai - re bowhold, his thumb and index and pinkie were textbook, just his middle and ring finger would sometimes randomly trail in mid air. I also felt he should hold the violin up a bit higher and play closer to the bridge as a default rather than so close to the fingerboard. However, even amongst professional violinists you get very different styles and angles the violin is held at, how much the violinists move around etc In any event, this DS completely changed his style by 13 after watching lots of famous professionals and deciding who he wanted to be like. That kind of mentalisation comes with age.

You hold the bow with your thumb, middle and ring finger; the pinkie and index finger are placed very lightly and there for balance. You should be able to use the bow with your pinkie and index in the air. Sounds like he needs his bow hold sorting asap, otherwise it will hold him back technically.

You do get different styles of holding the violin it’s true, but bowing is less variable - well other than some very stiff hands and bow arms.

This cannot be serious?