Page 17 | Not sure whether to be a sahm or not

Flowerpicker1 · 2022-11-06T20:21:06+00:00

Had 2 under 2. My maternity leave is now coming to an end following the birth of my 2nd dc. Neither dc are in nursery. DH is on a good wage. Have been given the option not to return to work if I don't want to. Dh can cover us. It would be part not full time anyway.3 days. Not sure what to do. On one hand I'd love to be there for all of my dcs childhood but on the other I worry if I would cope. We don't have any family or support nearby. If you work would you rather be a sahm and not put your children in nursery? Or have you done this and loved it/regretted it?

LannieDuck · 07/11/2022 12:16

A lot of this will depend on your husband.

Will he step up to do half of the housework and childcare (and child sick days and mental load) if you're back FT?

Will you have full access to the family finances if you're a SAHM?
Will he still pull his weight in the evenings and weekends if he thinks the house and kids are 'your job'?
Will you be financially screwed if you and your husband split up for any reason?

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 12:17

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:14

@spaceshiptrain you are asking young children what they want. Isn't that a loaded question? What child will say they want their mother, father, grandmother, nanny to leave them. This is emotional blackmail on so many levels.

Now fast forward to teenage years. My dcs have a friendship group. They are not particularly bothered about spending time with their parents. My son openly wants me to continue to work. He is now older and can see the monetary benefits of a working mother. He can tell from his friends' houses and what their parent(s) do how well off they are. It is unspoken. I doubt any of this friends think, oh, I wish my mother stays at home. If she is still SAHM-ing, they probably wonder what she does with her time. The empty nest years will be ugly.

Fine to stay at home. But bear in mind the discussion is framed in terms of early years. Longer term is when it negatives start to accelerate. This is a factor to consider in making an informed decision.

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Wonder what someone does all day when not working?

Enjoy life on your own terms.

If you didn't have a job would you sit staring at a wall all day wondering what to do?

Topgub · 07/11/2022 12:17

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 12:15

"What child will say they want their mother, father, grandmother, nanny to leave them." - what do you mean by this?

Are you suggesting all children want their relatives to be around and available to them?

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Course they do.

They just don't have to be available 100% of the time

canyoutoleratethis · 07/11/2022 12:18

sst1234 · 06/11/2022 20:40

Giving up your financial independence willingly is madness. But each to their own.

Having children to then willingly pay someone else to look after them is madness. But each to their own

Thepeopleversuswork · 07/11/2022 12:18

@spaceshiptrain

You're post is confused. You know you would rather be with your child and need evidence that's best, of course it's best, but as you say you don't have the luxury and that's a shame.

Don't tell me what I know. You don't know what I know.

You say I "know I would rather be with my child". Well, I am with my child. I'm with my child seven days a week, apart from when she is at school and I am at the office.

What I said was that if people who have a vague "feeling" that children would be better off staying with their mothers around the clock want to come on a public forum and tell mothers who do have work that they are damaging their children they need hard evidence for this. It's a hurtful and defamatory thing to say and if you're going to talk the talk you need to be able to demonstrate it. Which no one has yet done.

It is the case that I never had the option not to work because I am a single parent. And it makes me angry when people who do have the choice not to work guilt trip me by saying things like "what's the point having kids if you nevre look after them". It's a rude and ignorant thing to say.

That doesn't invalidate the fact that I believe mothers who do have the choice not to work have every right to work if they want to work. And I also believe there are significant benefits to the children from having working mothers. Most obviously the greater financial security and the boost to the mother's self esteem. That doesn't mean I think all women should work. But my personal view is that its better for many reasons if a woman with children can work at least some of the time.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/11/2022 12:19

Ignore the ‘I would never dream of being a SAHM’ comments. That’s putting a negative spin on something that can be very rewarding and the perfect option for some families. Working doesn’t make someone more ‘superior’ to a SAHM.

I don't think that many, if any, posters have said anything about superiority. Mostly, the issues at stake have concerned the real and present financial dangers plus posters talking about self-fulfilment (either way).

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/11/2022 12:20

Having children to then willingly pay someone else to look after them is madness. But each to their own

That's why the fathers should stay home and look after them!

Topgub · 07/11/2022 12:21

Oh there's been plenty comments about the superiority of not working and raising your children by yourself

As if that's actually a thing

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 12:23

Thepeopleversuswork · 07/11/2022 12:18

@spaceshiptrain

You're post is confused. You know you would rather be with your child and need evidence that's best, of course it's best, but as you say you don't have the luxury and that's a shame.

Don't tell me what I know. You don't know what I know.

You say I "know I would rather be with my child". Well, I am with my child. I'm with my child seven days a week, apart from when she is at school and I am at the office.

What I said was that if people who have a vague "feeling" that children would be better off staying with their mothers around the clock want to come on a public forum and tell mothers who do have work that they are damaging their children they need hard evidence for this. It's a hurtful and defamatory thing to say and if you're going to talk the talk you need to be able to demonstrate it. Which no one has yet done.

It is the case that I never had the option not to work because I am a single parent. And it makes me angry when people who do have the choice not to work guilt trip me by saying things like "what's the point having kids if you nevre look after them". It's a rude and ignorant thing to say.

That doesn't invalidate the fact that I believe mothers who do have the choice not to work have every right to work if they want to work. And I also believe there are significant benefits to the children from having working mothers. Most obviously the greater financial security and the boost to the mother's self esteem. That doesn't mean I think all women should work. But my personal view is that its better for many reasons if a woman with children can work at least some of the time.

Hm, no you're tying things together that don't need to go together.

You don't have to work to have good self-esteem.
You don't have to work to have financial security.

But anyway, if you have to work you have to work, there's no way around it so what would be the point in even defending it when you have to do it either way?

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:23

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 12:15

"What child will say they want their mother, father, grandmother, nanny to leave them." - what do you mean by this?

Are you suggesting all children want their relatives to be around and available to them?

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@spaceshiptrain this is in response to your rhetorical statement:

I do think babies and children want their mothers to be with them as much as possible because why wouldn't they?

It's not about asking them to make a decision, that would be wildly cruel to them. It's about their preference.

My child's preference is definitely that I'm with her as much as possible.

Not evidenced unless you ask the child. And if you ask the child, you will of course get, no don't go, whoever is the relative asking, not just the mother.

If you want rigorous evidence of where your child would prefer you to be, simply ask them and they will tell you. After all it's only your child that matters, not any other child.

It does not matter who asks the child, whether it be the mother, father, grandparent etc, the child will always so of course I prefer you to be with me. What is the point of this question? It's emotionally rigged and unfair to the child.

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 12:24

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:23

@spaceshiptrain this is in response to your rhetorical statement:

I do think babies and children want their mothers to be with them as much as possible because why wouldn't they?

It's not about asking them to make a decision, that would be wildly cruel to them. It's about their preference.

My child's preference is definitely that I'm with her as much as possible.

Not evidenced unless you ask the child. And if you ask the child, you will of course get, no don't go, whoever is the relative asking, not just the mother.

If you want rigorous evidence of where your child would prefer you to be, simply ask them and they will tell you. After all it's only your child that matters, not any other child.

It does not matter who asks the child, whether it be the mother, father, grandparent etc, the child will always so of course I prefer you to be with me. What is the point of this question? It's emotionally rigged and unfair to the child.

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I'm not suggesting you actually ask, my point is the only evidence that matters is the needs of the child and not any paper or study you could find.

I haven't asked my child this question because I don't need to, one it's obvious and two, I wouldn't consider working full-time anyway. And if I had to I wouldn't ask her then either because again, what would be the point?

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:24

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:23

@spaceshiptrain this is in response to your rhetorical statement:

I do think babies and children want their mothers to be with them as much as possible because why wouldn't they?

It's not about asking them to make a decision, that would be wildly cruel to them. It's about their preference.

My child's preference is definitely that I'm with her as much as possible.

Not evidenced unless you ask the child. And if you ask the child, you will of course get, no don't go, whoever is the relative asking, not just the mother.

If you want rigorous evidence of where your child would prefer you to be, simply ask them and they will tell you. After all it's only your child that matters, not any other child.

It does not matter who asks the child, whether it be the mother, father, grandparent etc, the child will always so of course I prefer you to be with me. What is the point of this question? It's emotionally rigged and unfair to the child.

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@spaceshiptrain Bold failure, the second last quote was my reply, not yours

AlwaysLatte · 07/11/2022 12:25

I've loved being a SAHM. They're at secondary school now but I love that I can still pick them up and not miss anything or have to leave them alone at home. So no negatives here!

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:26

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 12:24

I'm not suggesting you actually ask, my point is the only evidence that matters is the needs of the child and not any paper or study you could find.

I haven't asked my child this question because I don't need to, one it's obvious and two, I wouldn't consider working full-time anyway. And if I had to I wouldn't ask her then either because again, what would be the point?

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It is clear you want to be with your child. That is a great choice, go for it with your eyes open. But there is no evidence it benefits the child. Not that you would ask. Just your unproveable hunch.

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 12:28

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:26

It is clear you want to be with your child. That is a great choice, go for it with your eyes open. But there is no evidence it benefits the child. Not that you would ask. Just your unproveable hunch.

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That's right, I have responded to my child and acted on cues from her.

But as for evidence, of course there will be evidence, it would depend what evidence would look for you.

What would evidence look like for you? What evidence would you be looking for/compelled by in this case?

Bestcatmum · 07/11/2022 12:30

I would have absolutely loved being a SAHM until my DS went to school, my career was easily restarted as I was a trained nurse at the time.
However my exH dumped us and went abroad to live so I had no choice but to work as I had a mortgage and they didn't pay mortgages on benefits then.
I missed so many of his early steps and milestones, I felt really cheated. I still do 40 years later.

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:34

I manage two women in my team who have young families (2 dcs). They both work part time. They work flexibly from home the majority of the time and do drop offs and pick ups and co-ordinate childcare with their partners and use a nursery or grandparent part time. I respect their time outside of work hours. I don't see their dcs missing out on mummy time. If anything, their dcs have a richer tapestry of life with more people and carers interwoven into their day which gives them stimulation and affection. The myth of a mother-child dyad staring into each others' eyes is just a fantasy. Life is busy and also fun.

Mothers can prefer to stay home with their young dcs and great if they have the choice to do so. But they would be kidding themselves that it benefits the child more than another arrangement. If they are honest, they would admit they are ultimately doing it for themselves. It is not a sacrifice for the child's interests.

canyoutoleratethis · 07/11/2022 12:54

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 12:34

I manage two women in my team who have young families (2 dcs). They both work part time. They work flexibly from home the majority of the time and do drop offs and pick ups and co-ordinate childcare with their partners and use a nursery or grandparent part time. I respect their time outside of work hours. I don't see their dcs missing out on mummy time. If anything, their dcs have a richer tapestry of life with more people and carers interwoven into their day which gives them stimulation and affection. The myth of a mother-child dyad staring into each others' eyes is just a fantasy. Life is busy and also fun.

Mothers can prefer to stay home with their young dcs and great if they have the choice to do so. But they would be kidding themselves that it benefits the child more than another arrangement. If they are honest, they would admit they are ultimately doing it for themselves. It is not a sacrifice for the child's interests.

Totally disagree. Yes I get enormous personal benefit from being with my DD as a SAHM, so my decision is not all altruistic, but I firmly believe that being with a consistent caregiver 24/7 at her age (20 months) is the best for her. That is my driving principle - it is best for her. She has lots of interactions and opportunities to meet people - we have a full weekly diary of classes and play dates - but I am with her, by her side through all of it, and nobody is ever going to convince me that that's not in her best interest. I'm sorry, but I've seen inside a nursery and whilst the staff are amazing and do what they can, nobody is able to give the children the consistent and dedicated time, attention, and love they need when they are so young. I'm pregnant with DC2 and won't be going back to work until they are both at school and developmentally and emotionally able to cope with significant absence from a parent.

Ultimately people must do what they have to do, and lots of women want to work and that's fair enough - that's their choice, and I don't make sweeping statements about their motivations. But I object to your post making such stupid assumptions about what SAHMs real motives are. My motives are solely about what is best for my child. So much so that I waited to have them until I was financially able to take time out of my career to raise them myself. I'm an 'older' mother precisely because I wanted to establish a very successful career first, that I can then easily step back into, so that I can be there to raise my own children. I did this because it is the best for my child. And being with a parent will always be what is best

Thepeopleversuswork · 07/11/2022 12:55

@spaceshiptrain

Hm, no you're tying things together that don't need to go together.

You don't have to work to have good self-esteem.
You don't have to work to have financial security.

Let me correct that for you:

I have to work to have good self-esteem.
I have to work to have financial security.

Please stop telling me you know more about me than I do.

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 13:02

@canyoutoleratethis

I wanted to establish a very successful career first, that I can then easily step back into, so that I can be there to raise my own children. I did this because it is the best for my child. And being with a parent will always be what is best

This is your belief even before you had children. It is not very evidence-based. But I am glad you sensibly set it up so that you are financially secure to be able to do it.

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 13:05

@canyoutoleratethis Working parents do 'raise their own children', you know. I am sure you did not mean that your partner, if you have one - who I assume is working to support you - is raising his own child.

blueshoes · 07/11/2022 13:06

... is not raising ... too many negatives.

transverseworries · 07/11/2022 13:07

I've been a sahm since my eldest was born, also had 2 and under 2 and about to have number 3 so will have 3 under 5. I absolutely love it. But, it's definitely not for everyone. The things to think about are:

Do you have a good network of local friends who are also sahms/work part time? It can be lonely and isolating being at home with young children. I have lots of friends who I can see pretty much any day of the week for walks/playdates/activities so I'm still getting plenty of adult interaction
Will you be able to afford to take your kids to groups and activities? It's very hard to keep kids entertained at home day after day. If you can't afford the occasional trip to softplay/local farm/toddler group I think it would be hard work
Can you afford a private pension? Dh pays into a pension for me every year so I'm not missing out entirely by being at home
Are your family finances completely shared/open? A quick look at the threads on here will show you how many sahms are financially abused by their husbands. You HAVE to have equal access to money, not be paid a pathetic "allowance" like you're a child
Is your husband on board and does he respect the role of sahm? Again, look through mumsnet and you'll see how many men use having a stay at home wife as an excuse to completely check out of family life. Dh more than pulls his weight with both housework and childcare outside of his work hours and this is vital

It's a really personal choice and it's definitely not for everyone but you can always try it and if it doesn't work for you you can get another job

thenewduchessoflapland · 07/11/2022 13:14

With two kids it might be cheaper to hire someone you pay per hour to look after them both in your home.

mantramama · 07/11/2022 13:15

Working parents do raise their own children, but some do this to a larger extent than others. People talk on here as if working parents are a 'group' but they are not. A working parent could be someone who is pretty much home when the kids are home from school. Or it could be someone who spends weeks or months abroad. It could be someone who shared childcare with their husband or relatives for the most part. Or someone who has a nanny. Or someone who put a baby in a day centre 8am to 6pm when they were a few months old, either because they had no choice or they had other priorities..You need to specify really for this to make sense.

Nor are SAHMs a distinct group and it baffles me why people on here seem to talk as if this is so. Some SAHMs do everything for their kids with no reliance on anyone else ever. Some SAHMs have staff!