Page 14 | Not sure whether to be a sahm or not

Flowerpicker1 · 2022-11-06T20:21:06+00:00

Had 2 under 2. My maternity leave is now coming to an end following the birth of my 2nd dc. Neither dc are in nursery. DH is on a good wage. Have been given the option not to return to work if I don't want to. Dh can cover us. It would be part not full time anyway.3 days. Not sure what to do. On one hand I'd love to be there for all of my dcs childhood but on the other I worry if I would cope. We don't have any family or support nearby. If you work would you rather be a sahm and not put your children in nursery? Or have you done this and loved it/regretted it?

SurreyHillsMamaAndBabyOscar · 07/11/2022 09:56

Currently on maternity leave. I’m loving spending time with my baby son but don’t think I’d want to be at home permanently. Rightly or wrongly, working is good for my self esteem and sense of self.

I want to show my son a good example and for him to be proud of his successful mummy, not just his successful daddy! My mother didn’t work and in all honestly, I never felt proud of her for depending on my dad, but really looked up to my hard working dad.

Also, the SAHMs I know don’t seem fulfilled.

I do plan on working four days a week when I go back and my baby won’t be doing full days at nursery as my role affords me the flexibility to drop off and collect at various times.

Topgub · 07/11/2022 09:57

mantramama · 07/11/2022 09:50

Topgub - again I said nothing about women 'not working at all.' It's a nuanced discussion we are having here, surely? Of course there are pitfalls to women not working at all and all decisions are a delicate balance.

But I don't think it's helpful either to have this binary approach to life where you just brand every difference between men and women as 'sexist' and therefore something to be denied and done away with at all costs. It shuts down discussions and I think this can be quite dangerous actually.

In life, most people are aiming to be as happy as they can. Happiness takes different forms. Being able to work equally to men may indeed be optimal happiness for many women. But for others it will not be - because in gaining that financial agency, they are also aware they have lost a degree of agency over their babies / children day to day. If having a career was the definition of happiness and we were all the same, life would be very simple, wouldn't it? As we know, it is not. There is great value in women working. But there is also great value in care giving to our own children. It's not 'sexist' for some women to feel a need to prioritise that. It is 'sexist' to try to silence them or tell them their instincts have no value.

In my view, a 'happier' society would not be one where women are being told there is something wrong with them if they have different working patterns to their husbands or deviate from the "work full-time and just get childcare" lifestyle. It's ok to work full time but equally, it should be ok to want something different. Choice and a mixed society of SAHMs, full time working mums and everything inbetween and nobody tearing anyone down for it would surely be the natural reflection of a 'happier' society. It's the utilitarian principle of 'greatest happiness for the greatest number.' You won't get that by declaring "all women should be at home." That's been probed. But equally, you won't achieve a happier society by declaring "all women must work." Flexibility and choice are key to happiness, on an individual and societal level.

Except no one has said that so it's just another strawman

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 09:58

SurreyHillsMamaAndBabyOscar · 07/11/2022 09:56

Currently on maternity leave. I’m loving spending time with my baby son but don’t think I’d want to be at home permanently. Rightly or wrongly, working is good for my self esteem and sense of self.

I want to show my son a good example and for him to be proud of his successful mummy, not just his successful daddy! My mother didn’t work and in all honestly, I never felt proud of her for depending on my dad, but really looked up to my hard working dad.

Also, the SAHMs I know don’t seem fulfilled.

I do plan on working four days a week when I go back and my baby won’t be doing full days at nursery as my role affords me the flexibility to drop off and collect at various times.

In what way are they not fulfilled? Do they say they are not fulfilled or is it something you've picked up on? And if so, what have you picked up on?

Aussiegirl123456 · 07/11/2022 10:04

Kendodd · 07/11/2022 09:52

The MN view is going to be you have to work and maintain your financial independence, a view not without merit. I was a SAHM for about six years, while my children were little, honestly, they were the happiest years of my life and I really miss those days. It also worked really well for us as a family in that none of us were run ragged with not enough time to get everything done. Our evening were free for myself and my husband to eat dinner together (kids in bed at 7pm) and our weekends free for family time. I filled my weekdays with playgroups, swimming lessons etc. Giving up work was a risk, and we'll probably forever be paying the financial cost but I don't regret a single day. Having said all that, the life I led during those years would be hell on earth for some women.

Same same.

Not for a second do I regret staying home with the children when they were small. I was so happy. I know lots of women would absolutely hate it and they love their careers and watching their children thrive in a nursery. You’re on maternity leave now, so you have an idea of what each day looks like. Do you enjoy it?

Even when out children all begun school, I stayed off for a while to do postgrad studies. I ended up with a better career than I had pre children. Staying home with the children never hindered my career thankfully. For me, it was far less stressful being home with the kids because when they were too ill for school, my husband and I didn’t have to juggle taking time off. We also got so used to living off just the one wage for so long that when I did start working, my entire salary went towards the mortgage which was paid off entirely just before my 30th birthday.

There really are pros and cons to both working and not working, only you and your husband can decide what is best for your family, your situation at this particular time.

Managinggenzoclock · 07/11/2022 10:08

I was a SAHM until my youngest turned 3.
I found it exhausting, isolating and identity stealing but realistically I think it would have probably been even harder working with no wider family support.

I’ve been back at work for two years and am earning more now than I did then and in a flexible job.

My top tips are:

do something to put on your CV and ensure your DH supports it. In my industry it was possible to be a trustee in the field I was in, but it could be doing a small amount of self employed work or a very part time course. It doesn’t really matter if it’s only one hour a week. Just something for that period of time.

-make sure you get time away from your kids.

DH and I made an agreement that I would go away once every 4-6 months for a weekend. It has a double benefit. Sanity saving for the SAHP and also helps the other parent appreciate how flipping hard it is.

-My other advice is not to take on more than you should. Mumsnet wisdom is that a SAHM should do all childcare and almost all housework. I never did this and had I, going back to work would have been so much harder. Yes you’re going to do more childcare but keep housework fairly evenly split.

NCFT0922 · 07/11/2022 10:09

@SurreyHillsMamaAndBabyOscar quite sad the way you seem to think that having a job is the only way to be successful.

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 10:11

NCFT0922 · 07/11/2022 10:09

@SurreyHillsMamaAndBabyOscar quite sad the way you seem to think that having a job is the only way to be successful.

Since I started working at age 15 my overarching aim in life was to not have to be employed.

I've been successful in that, so I consider myself very successful. 😂

Topgub · 07/11/2022 10:11

Yet another reason why I wouldnt or pay for a sahp.

There's no way I'd be working all day, the only one earning money and then be expected to do half the house work and childcare

Fuck that

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 10:13

Topgub · 07/11/2022 10:11

Yet another reason why I wouldnt or pay for a sahp.

There's no way I'd be working all day, the only one earning money and then be expected to do half the house work and childcare

Fuck that

No kidding. The whole deal in a family set up with a SAHM is that the provider doesn't do any housework. This means that when he comes home from work he can spend time with the child instead of worrying about chores. This is the benefit of the set up. Why would my husband do any housework when I don't pay any bills?

Our family runs like a business, each person has a role, we don't all do a bit of every role.

Topgub · 07/11/2022 10:16

Yeah bit I'd resent that just as much.

Everyone doing something works for us

mantramama · 07/11/2022 10:16

Topgub - you did say that though. You say if couples do not divide working and childcare 50/50 it's "sexist." That's it for you. You get no further than that.

Can you not see that a society based on that dogma could be just as restrictive for some people as the 'sexist' dogma you are trying to get away from? As I said, the 'happiest' society will be one that naturally reflects a spectrum of women doing what suits them best. We should no longer need to be pretending we all want the same things. And it's absolutely ok to want different things to men sometimes too. They should listen to us and respond to that, not the other way round.

Topgub · 07/11/2022 10:17

mantramama · 07/11/2022 10:16

Topgub - you did say that though. You say if couples do not divide working and childcare 50/50 it's "sexist." That's it for you. You get no further than that.

Can you not see that a society based on that dogma could be just as restrictive for some people as the 'sexist' dogma you are trying to get away from? As I said, the 'happiest' society will be one that naturally reflects a spectrum of women doing what suits them best. We should no longer need to be pretending we all want the same things. And it's absolutely ok to want different things to men sometimes too. They should listen to us and respond to that, not the other way round.

Quote where I said that?

Or that everyone has to adhere to that?

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 10:22

SurreyHillsMamaAndBabyOscar · 07/11/2022 09:56

Currently on maternity leave. I’m loving spending time with my baby son but don’t think I’d want to be at home permanently. Rightly or wrongly, working is good for my self esteem and sense of self.

I want to show my son a good example and for him to be proud of his successful mummy, not just his successful daddy! My mother didn’t work and in all honestly, I never felt proud of her for depending on my dad, but really looked up to my hard working dad.

Also, the SAHMs I know don’t seem fulfilled.

I do plan on working four days a week when I go back and my baby won’t be doing full days at nursery as my role affords me the flexibility to drop off and collect at various times.

How is your relationship with your mum now?

How is your relationship with your dad now?

Do you love your mother?

Do you love your dad?

mantramama · 07/11/2022 10:24

You say it all the time Topgub. You have very fixed views about the SAHM set up. You declare it 'sexist.' That's it for you and you get stuck there. Case in point above.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/11/2022 10:28

Gawd, I'd rather work! It's not just the money in the short term it's the independence and the fact that I find meaning in the work that I do. I'd hate to be dependent on a man even if my work wasn't meaningful to me.

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 10:29

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/11/2022 10:28

Gawd, I'd rather work! It's not just the money in the short term it's the independence and the fact that I find meaning in the work that I do. I'd hate to be dependent on a man even if my work wasn't meaningful to me.

But are you independent in a marriage or are you in a partnership/family?

Topgub · 07/11/2022 10:29

So you can't actually quote where I said everyone has to do 50/50?

Yes.

I think the sahm set up is sexist. It blatantly is. Read this thread alone. The vast majority of comments from sahm list allowing their dhs to prioritise their career and avoid childcare and housework as a positive

But if people want to choose a sexist lifestyle that's up to them. I dont think it should be banned

I'd just rather people didn't try to guilt trip and shame women into adhering to it. Or pretend that it's a biological urge that if denied will harm women and children.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 07/11/2022 10:32

But are you independent in a marriage or are you in a partnership/family?

I'm marriage-free. That question should be asked of men who are all 'partnership' until they aren't because they've found something 'better'. My answer is that whereas there are elements of life that are shared financially it's best for women to have the means to maintain themselves in case he does find something 'better', or is unable to work or gets killed on the motorway.

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 10:32

Topgub · 07/11/2022 10:29

So you can't actually quote where I said everyone has to do 50/50?

Yes.

I think the sahm set up is sexist. It blatantly is. Read this thread alone. The vast majority of comments from sahm list allowing their dhs to prioritise their career and avoid childcare and housework as a positive

But if people want to choose a sexist lifestyle that's up to them. I dont think it should be banned

I'd just rather people didn't try to guilt trip and shame women into adhering to it. Or pretend that it's a biological urge that if denied will harm women and children.

I don't disagree with you at all.

I do wonder about you not respecting your mum and what that means for your relationship and why you mention it at all?

Our set up is 100% based on sex, and yes we're okay with that. I'm a woman who wants to be a wife and mother and my husband wants to be a provider. We subscribe to those values and know they are regressive towards tradition and we actually champion this as well as any other choice people wish to make.

I would hope that children are prioritised in whichever set up anyone chooses and you can do that alongside work.

Brefugee · 07/11/2022 10:33

Can you not see that a society based on that dogma could be just as restrictive for some people as the 'sexist' dogma you are trying to get away from? As I said, the 'happiest' society will be one that naturally reflects a spectrum of women doing what suits them best. We should no longer need to be pretending we all want the same things. And it's absolutely ok to want different things to men sometimes too. They should listen to us and respond to that, not the other way round.

well yes, but we also need to know that women aren't going to face poverty in old age because their high-earng, career driven DH didn't up sticks and leave for a more exciting/younger/whatever model.

Having the choice is great - but choosing something because nothing else works because that is how society works, isn't really a choice.

TheMoops · 07/11/2022 10:33

I've worked in childcare which would put me off every putting a young baby or toddler into one, as they were never happy being there all day and asked for mummy and daddy for about half the time they were there, wept, cried, and could not be nurtured properly in my opinion.

Sounds like you worked in a shit childcare provider tbh.

My 8 year old still talks fondly of his 'first' school. They were amazing.

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 10:34

TheMoops · 07/11/2022 10:33

I've worked in childcare which would put me off every putting a young baby or toddler into one, as they were never happy being there all day and asked for mummy and daddy for about half the time they were there, wept, cried, and could not be nurtured properly in my opinion.

Sounds like you worked in a shit childcare provider tbh.

My 8 year old still talks fondly of his 'first' school. They were amazing.

My daughter went to nursery at 2 for 3 hours a day and loved it and I liked that nursery. The ones I worked in were private and it was when the children were there from 8-5 that they got weepy and kept asking 'when is mummy coming?' around 2pm and didn't stop. It felt very sad for a child to have to be like that every day.

spaceshiptrain · 07/11/2022 10:36

TheMoops · 07/11/2022 10:33

I've worked in childcare which would put me off every putting a young baby or toddler into one, as they were never happy being there all day and asked for mummy and daddy for about half the time they were there, wept, cried, and could not be nurtured properly in my opinion.

Sounds like you worked in a shit childcare provider tbh.

My 8 year old still talks fondly of his 'first' school. They were amazing.

I liked nursery too and don't remember crying. The main issue is that when a child was like that it wasn't as if the staff would inform the parents at all so the parents would have no idea their child was miserable for 3 hours of every day.

TheMoops · 07/11/2022 10:36

No kidding. The whole deal in a family set up with a SAHM is that the provider doesn't do any housework. This means that when he comes home from work he can spend time with the child instead of worrying about chores. This is the benefit of the set up. Why would my husband do any housework when I don't pay any bills?
Our family runs like a business, each person has a role, we don't all do a bit of every role.

Isn't this just teaching your kids that housework is women's work?

DangerNoodles · 07/11/2022 10:37

The end of maternity leave is not a good time to be making such a life changing decision, try going back to work for a few months, then see how you feel.

I rushed into becoming a SAHM and now my children are in school I feel it would have been better in the long term for me to have stayed in work. Over the years I have seen friends marriages break down and seen friends trapped in marriages because they are financially dependent. I feel like I really did take a massive risk becoming dependant on my husband. Even though he wasn't an arse with money, we would have been screwed if he had been made redundant and we would really struggle in the current economic climate if not for my money. I didn't realise how much of my identity I lost until my children went to school, being a SAHM is very difficult and lonely at times and being brutally honest, if I had worked full time I think I would have been happier person and more patient with my DCs and I would have more money to spend doing fun things with them on my time off.

There is nothing like the feeling of having your own pay coming in!