For asking my Ukrainian guest to get a job so they can move out?

[Erith1985]

Wondering if anyone else is going through the same thing.

I’ve been hosting a Ukrainian guest at my house for six months. I’m appalled by the war and I have a big spare room with its own bathroom and so although I normally live alone by choice, I offered up my room. The first few months were ok, they are clean and tidy and were out and about a fair amount so we didn’t get in each other’s way. We didn’t discuss length of stay when they first arrived because I didn’t want them to feel unwelcome. I figured I would bring it up when they got a job.

That hasn’t happened. They say they have been sending off their CV and getting some interviews, but they haven’t secured anything. It seems they have only been looking at jobs in their previous sector, and that they have pretty high salary expectations since they’re complaining about the 45% tax rate. In the meantime, they’ve now settled into a routine that means they are at home nearly all the time - coming down to cook three times a day and only seeming to leave the house to go to the gym or the job centre, and spend most of the time in between instagramming. It feels like the heating and / or the oven is constantly on and they aren’t very communicative so when we’re in the shared space at the same time it feels awkward.

We finally had the conversation a month or so ago to say that I would like my hosting to end at the end of November, which they accepted on the basis that they were sure they would have secured one of the jobs they were going for by then, but there’s no sign of that being the case. When I ventured that they might need to look at work that wasn’t their first choice sector, they looked at me like I was mad and said that they’d rather start her own business (!) They’ve also mentioned several times how expensive flats in our area are and how they needs the big salary they want to be able to afford it.

I’m really just at a loss for how to handle this situation - I obviously won’t be turfing them out on the streets but how do I make them see that they might have to accept work that is not their ideal and work towards it? And / or rent a room that is outside of London to be able to afford it? They have great language skills, and there’s no reason they couldn’t find work other than they aren’t willing to consider something which isn’t their “dream job” and furthering their career; I totally get wanting that, but not at the expense of being able to support yourself. I’m worried that I am now just stuck hosting as long as they want me to, and the Council have been no help (basically got a letter saying “no other hosts available and we hope you’ll help them as long as they need you”.)

Am I being unreasonable for wanting them to work harder at getting a job (any job) so that I can have my house back?

I despise British exceptionalism and this attitude that foreigners should just be bloody grateful for anything. I am 100% certain that if most of you were in the same position as these refugees, you'd consider yourselves 'expats' and expect a similar lifestyle to what you had back home. That's if you could even cope at all without imploding.

I have lived abroad, and seen how many British people thought it beneath them to learn the local language, but also seen how many did(I did, but none of my family really bothered). I do menial, manual, dangerous work now, so would have no problem doing it elsewhere. I don't believe you can generalize about British people any more than about Ukrainians.

It is difficult, but I think there are two separate issues here. First, the guest has almost certainly experienced some trauma and the circumstances which brought the OP her here are awful. Secondly, her behaviour is not acceptable to the OP. She isn't rude or violent or filthy, but she is putting pressure on the OPs finances, and it has probably been much more difficult to share a house than OP expected.

I always start from the position that a lot of unreasonable behaviour stems from fear. If this woman has left everything behind, then her profession is the last part of her old life, and it's understandable, if misguided, that she is clinging to it. She is probably also afraid of moving out on her own, away from the secure place to live that OP has kindly provided.

OP, could you have one more try to talk to her and maybe offer help with finding somewhere to live (a reference from you might well help, even if she also needs financial support from elsewhere). She doesn't sound like a terrible person, and I suspect that if she can be encouraged to let go of her expectations, she will find a job which is better than she fears, and can work up from that. Realistically, this was never going to be a case of simply housing someone for a few months and then waving them off as they made their own way in a totally new country.

It’s not always possible to get the same job you had in your home country. That’s why I had to give up my amazing career after I moved to the UK due to circumstances. It took me ten years to get into another field. So it is for many many people with difficult situations, so I don’t get why a person can’t temporarily do some other jobs. So do millions of people around the world to bring food to the table.

It's interesting how some people will take someone's perfectly understandable and reasonable experience and try to gag any dialogue by calling it extreme and hate baiting.
MN deals in unique, personal stories, not statistics, we're not in completely totalitarian society just yet.

Not qualified? lol.

Assumptions much.

You have ZERO idea what PP is qualified in, I have a bloody medical degree but its worth basically fuck all because the NHS pays so little and overworks people in the starting rung and I cant juggle that with my family commitments (3 kids, disabled myself and a full time carer) and I dont have an 'in' or big enough reputation for any private insititutions.

Im self employed in an entirely different field (the arts) which requires fuck all qualifications but that doesnt mean I dont HAVE qualifications.

I actually can count on 1 hand the amount of people I know that work in their qualification fields, hell my friend has a first in law and is a medical receptionist by choice because its relaxed and she gets to work with her best friend.

Are you honestly telling me that if you were a management consultant here, with a six figure salary, that you'd hit the ground rolling in a foreign country with a different language, excited to clean toilets, while your family back home are getting bombed and killed in a war?

That's what thousands of black and brown refugees have had to do. Ever bothered talking to them? My own father had a degree in engineering and ended up digging coal in a mine when he came here because that's all he could do with non recognised qualifications. Nobody is "excited" to clean toilets. Our Ukrainian guests are not the first group of immigrants asked to do jobs they would rather not be doing.

@pixie5121 you underestimate the British. Up until recently I cleaned toilets in offices, cleaned the toilet of an old man with a colostomy bag, cleaned houses for snotty clients just to make ends meet. I now earn a six figure salary. I was cleaning toilets four years ago. Never underestimate what a British person will do to survive and get on. Ever.

You can't possibly think that expecting someone who is capable of working to get a job to financially support themselves is "hating" them. Regardless of where she's come from or what she's been through previously, she is now in a position where she is capable of supporting herself and is choosing not to. That's not an acceptable choice for an adult to make, unfortunately. I hold this view with anyone who lives of someone else through choice without the on-going and genuine agreement of the person they're living off (adult children living off their parents, partners living off their partner, refugees living off their hosts, people choosing to live on benefits etc).

If you are capable of supporting yourself and choosing not to then that's not acceptable (unless the person funding you agrees that them funding you is what they want too).

As someone who moved to the UK in my early 20s (not from the English speaking country) I can assure you all that it takes YEARS, not months to learn English that enables a person to get a job similar to what one had in the home country if we speak professional, university degree roles. Plus, many qualifications wont be recognised in the UK hence (extensive) retraining is often required. Again, we are talking years, not months.
IT jobs/qualifications would be an exception, and maybe a few others. But not many. I dont know what the answer is, but I feel deep sympathy for both hosts and guests who are held hostage to the situation

I agree with this. I've worked in house keeping, as a kitchen porter, behind a bar, as a waitress, as a sales assistant in a department store, in a care home for the elderly, in a bakery, on a construction site, at a clay pigeon shooting range etc - I also now earn a six figure salary. And, to be honest, the interview for my six figure salary job, they cared a lot more about my experience doing those things than my previous "professional" experience.

@Inmyhandbag why are you stoking tensions like this ? We've already got people phoning LBC advocating putting sharks in the channel to stop dinghies crossing.
The council employee who visited us last week insinuated that any accommodation provided by them, be it social housing or a room in a b and b, is in no way luxury.

And, to be honest, the interview for my six figure salary job, they cared a lot more about my experience doing those things than my previous "professional" experience.

I've heard it said that white collar employers are always interested in people who have worked at MacDonalds - working there is usually a sign of being organised and resilient.

As someone who moved to the UK in my late twenties I can assure you that I didn't expect the UK to play by the same rules than my home country regarding qualifications, or anything at all, really.
I didn't expect the UK to meet me halfway or provide me with the means to settle, why should it?
Call me stupid but I expected things, including the language, to be different to what I was used to.That's why I came.

Fellow host here. You need to be very direct and give clear timescales. They need to be able to support themselves and move out by xxx. They need to lower their expectations regarding work. We are hosting two highly qualified professionals who are working in the kitchens of local restaurants. Can you give them examples like this of other Ukrainians taking on more basic jobs? I would speak to them and also write to them regarding what they need to do. It's tough love. And you need to give them a big push towards independence.

That WHY I came here!

Contact Refugees at Home- they may be able to offer much better advice than your council

It's just life. I came from another English speaking country, Ireland, and lived in the UK for 11 years. I had to start in a job I was overqualified for but I just got on with it. For four out of the 11 years I lived in shitty shared houses in London and Essex. No one owes anyone anything else. You have to make your own way. Now I'm back home and I earn 3 times what I started on. I'm grateful for my time and experience in the UK. I'm sorry but expecting to move country and maintain the same standard of living from the get-go is pie in the sky for a lot of people, refugee or not.

You have zero idea what British people would or wouldn’t do to survive because we have never been in the situation Ukraine is in. The last time the UK was in anywhere near a similar situation the whole of Europe was at war so there was nowhere safe to go for anyone.

You talk about British exceptionalism but no one wants to move down as it were. There is nothing to say British people wouldn’t behave in the same way, or French or German or Spanish etc. Not sure why British people are so exceptional to you in this regard.

This is a complete strawman argument designed to have a go at well meaning hosts. It's just anti middle class bile. It's got nothing to do with the situation at hand.

Not only that but it neglects the point that guests have been here for 6 months. They aren't newly here and if you are a professional moving abroad, and you find you aren't getting interviews as someone educated, you take a step back and ask why you aren't getting those jobs and look to see if you need to do training to transfer your skills. Middle class movers to Australia, NZ, US etc already need to do this so its a well known thing not restricted to refugees.

On top of that, if you are living with someone else for six months and you are contributing nothing to that household you have to have some pretty big balls and front to still be sat on your backside doing nothing. And that applies to professionals as well as working class.

The big elephant in the room is the fact the penny hasn't dropped after 6months.

Hosts are not seeing their guests asking questions about transferring qualifications (and supporting self whilst doing that) that's the point.

You aren't seeing a case of a sudden change of attitude and taking responsibility. You see an increasing dependence.

Necessity would come into it too. The situation is that many guests aren't seeing a necessity to go find any job.

Awesome! Just awesome!!!!

Of course it is hard to take a low paying, low status job if you're used to a higher paying, high status one. But if someone was giving me somewhere to live as the OP is, I would absolutely do any work I could to contribute, and ultimately to make myself independent and get my own place- if only to make space for another refugee in the system. I'd feel it was my duty to other refugees, and to my kind hosts, to do any work I could find.
It's also a question of fairness- if someone with a background in tough, low paying job is expected to get a job in anything they can find, why should it be different for someone used to 'better'? Why should they get a free pass just because they have previously been more fortunate than some of their fellow refugees?