Do you agree with the nurses strike?

[borderterrierr]

Guardian reporting that the rcn strike has resulted in a yes vote and we'll be striking before Christmas.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/05/nurses-across-uk-vote-to-strike-in-first-ever-national-action?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Patient's emergency care will be protected but it's a strike vote

No, I don't support them. I don't support anyone striking, though.

I do think that the NHS should be comprehensively dismantled as it is no longer fit for purpose and an ageing population. It should be taken out of politics altogether, because all politicians of any hue do is dick around trying to make their own mark on it, based on very little experience or understanding. Ditto education.

Funny that self-employed people never go on strike.

Absolutely

Absolutely support them.

They have no other option, the government isn't listening and doesn't care.

100% support the nurses. They've been shat on for years, and they deserve better. Not just better pay, but better working conditions generally. They shouldn't be run ragged for 12 hours at a time and too busy to take their breaks.

Self employed people set their own wages and working conditions, why would they strike?

Totally. It’s not about making up for their current pay. It’s about recognising that they’ve missed out on pay for the last 10 years. I once found a chart somewhere that says a band 5 nurse should be on a starting salary of around £35k (ish) and has missed out on thousands of pound since austerity measures started. Obviously this counts for all the bands and not just for nurses. I’m a band 6 in the NHS (used to be clinical but not anymore) I’ve missed out on loads, it’s sickening as I know how tough it is on the frontline.

I'm sorry, I know I will get torn to pieces for this, but I will say it anyway.
All those posters stating that nurses are terribly paid - do you actually know the starting salary for a nurse?
I won't comment on the working conditions, other than to say working upaid extra time and antisocial hours is not unique to nursing. I will say that most professions where weekend/night working is expected and is part of a rota do not get paid extra for doing it.
But back to this shocking, dreadful pay - I am not sure that a starting salary of £27k is that awful. It's not a fortune, but it's certainly not shocking, appalling, paltry and all of the other hyperbolic adjectives used to describe it.
And before anyone asks no, I couldn't be a nurse and no, I don't save lives every day. But I didn't choose to be a nurse. I don't suppose many nurses would want to do what I do either.

There are a few people who frequent threads who absolutely hate the nhs and nurses.

@Pickledhen well said.

@PomRuns yes I imagine you mean me.
Don't hate the NHS just don't get the complete refusal to accept that nurses not badly paid. They were in the past, but they are not now. It's like some weired brainwashing going on

Yep support nurses 💯 with this. And I think it's shocking the government and (elements of the press) are trying the "but think of the patients!". If anything goes badly wrong (and of course I sincerely hope it doesn't!) blames lies solely with the government for 12 years of underfunding and not with the nurses!

Now take the student debt of that amount … and compare it to the U.K. average house price, pushing £300k…

I think the conditions are the major problem. Not long ago there was part-time work available and regular shifts. Now they are asking students to work unpaid in order to get that piece of paper. Would you work unpaid? In 12 hr shifts that turn into 14 because there’s no cover, and then feel bullied to get up the next morning?

The public sector generally has had enough of declining real wages and conditions with increased demands. We are not public slaves. If you value the services, pay for them. Or you will end up paying far more for them privately.

Yeah, as if the government has ever cared about the patients.

Yes, I support it. However I am a senior manager in the NHS and have cold dread thinking about how we will get through the coming months

@Katypp at the end of the day it doesn't matter whether you or I consider current rates of pay adequate or generous or whatever. The fact is that a lot of nurses find them inadequate and are voting with their feet. The tougher and more stressful the conditions we expect nurses to operate under, the more we will need to compensate them. The hospital ds2 was recently in have nurses working 12 hour shifts. No idea if that's typical but that's a long shift.

@RosaGallica the first two point you make are completely irrelevant because they affect everyone, not just nurses. Some graduates never earn enough to start paying back their loan.
Conditions I feel less able to comment on as they are not as black and white as pay, but I would say you will struggle to find anyone who never puts in unpaid time, myself included. As I stated above, unpaid overtime is not unique to nurses and I don't understand why we persist in pretending it is.

@Untitledsquatboulder to a point I see what you're saying but everyone wants more pay, everyone thinks they are overworked, underrewarded, have less than perfect working conditions etc.
In absolute terms, a starting salary of £27k is not terrible, it really isn't

What we are fighting for is the recognition of the professional and skilled nature of the work we do. On the face of it a band 5 (registered nurse) wage looks ok, but when you factor in the training, skill and responsibility that is needed to fulfil that role, then yes, it's lacking.

Increasingly the role of nurses is taking over what junior doctors used to do. Triaging patients, making clinical decisions, minor surgery, giving cytotoxic drugs, invasive procedures, being a specialist in your field.... I could keep going. Nursing as a profession isn't just about caring, it's a whole lot more than that.

Added to all that, retention is the worst it's ever been. There is a severe lack of nurses, for a number of reasons including retirement, brexit and the withdrawal of the nursing bursary a few years ago. Nursing is not a tempting profession any more, and people cannot afford to take a career because "it's a vocation" they want adequate remuneration for the blood sweat and tears to go into doing the job. This means that patients are at risk, spend a day on a ward, you'll see what I mean. Patient/nurse ratios are disgusting: when my mum was a patient recently on an acute ward, there was one trained nurse running the whole ward of 19 patients. One. They had a physio helping out doing washes. It's dire, it's critical and we need to attract more nurses to the profession.

I could also go on about the amount of money that is wasted on agency staff that costs the NHS so much cost.

Lots of nurses find this hard, we do not want to walk out on our patients, we CARE about them and don't want them to come to harm. But something has to change to make sure that patients are kept safe.

People need to stop focusing solely on how much nurses earn and look at what they go through to earn it.

Yes, absolutely.
It shouldn't be a race to the bottom. Anyone doing a decent days work should not have to be struggling, we need to fight for better pay and conditions for those who need it.
Sadly if striking is the only way to achieve this, yes do it !

Yes - reluctantly - but yes.

@TimBoothseyes but the strike is for better pay and conditions. It's moving the goalposts to say we should not focus on pay, as that's exactly what the union IS focusing on.

@tiggergoesbounce I do agree with you, but I think my main problem is that people just blindly belive nurses should be paid more without, in most cases I belive, actually knowing what nurses are paid. We have been brainwashed into thinking it's 'not enough' without most people actually knowing how much the actual figure is. It's not helped by the nurses pay scale starting at level 1, when nurses salaries don't start til level 5, so some people assume nurses are paid a lot less (level 1) than they are. The RCN is happy to let this misunderstanding continue.

Unions can't strike over anything else, though.

Over 40,000 nurses quit last year. Obviously for various reasons including retirement. I was one of them, not renewing my registration. Nurses are voting with their feet now and simply quitting . It’s an undervalued profession and sadly I don’t feel conditions will ever really improve.