Do you agree with the nurses strike?

[borderterrierr]

Guardian reporting that the rcn strike has resulted in a yes vote and we'll be striking before Christmas.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/05/nurses-across-uk-vote-to-strike-in-first-ever-national-action?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Patient's emergency care will be protected but it's a strike vote

The problem is agency nurses are getting ridiculous pay. £40 an hour isn’t bad going at all - I believe the lower band nurses deserve a better pay, but higher band nurses that get 60/70k a year do not need a pay rise. That’s just greed. This is coming out the tax payers pocket and we are already in a crisis. I think going on strike is unprofessional personally, it’s risking lives - they knew that they weren’t signing up to be millionaires !

Also, they are not the only people in the nhs. The healthcare assistants carers and cleaners are paid at minimum wage - I don’t see them moaning and complaining ! They are the ones who really deserve a pay rise. 30k a year is liveable, minimum wage is not.

Also.. nurses are the only people in the nhs to have had a pay rise in the last few years. Nobody else has had a pay rise but nurses.

don’t see other people moaning…

I was debating responding to your ridiculous posts but this one is a complete lie. All NHS staff received the same pay rise except doctors and dentists who also received a pay rise but are on a different pay scale.

Nurses are the poorest paid registered professional group and there are 50,000 vacancies as no one wants to do it. Your suggestions are a nonsense.

The suggestion that only the poorest paid workers should get a pay rise really grates on me. It makes out those not on the minimum wage or those higher up the pay scale asking for more are greedy. But there is a scale of pay to compensate those with more skills accordingly and everyone deserves a pay rise regardless.

I agree. Because the government keep messing with it via fixed rate pay rises band 8a nurses now take home less than the band 7 nurses they manage. For 5 years! (until they go onto the higher pay point). It’s all wrong.

HCAs are striking too, they are really struggling and I certainly hear them complaining.

30k as a single person is more than liveable, but if you have a family childcare costs quickly make it not add up.

But it's not just about survival, it's about if it's a fair wage for a skilled profession which comes with massive responsibility. The huge number of vacancies and (as you pointed out) the incredible hourly rates if agency staff suggest it is not.

If we can't attract nurses to fill our masses if vacancies the NHS will not be able to start offering a basic safe service again. It's been the elephant in the room for years.

I do think there's a group of people who can't stand the idea of a lowly nurse earning more than them.

What are you on about? I'm not a nurse and I got a pay rise. The lower bandings (HCA's, Porters, Clerical etc) also got the biggest pay rise of all, deservedly so. Everyone in the nhs got a well below inflation pay rise last April. Not just nurses. AFC covers most nhs roles, except Junior Doctors I believe. It pushed many into the next pension & tax bracket thus they actually ended up getting less than before. If you're going to bother spouting shit on the internet at least do some research so you know what you're on about first.

The result of the payrise in Scotland is that a HSW on a Sunday now earns 19p an hour less than a newly qualified band 5 nurse. All that extra responsibility for £2.20 it’s not really worth the extra money…..

@MarleneH Once again, doesn't matter what you or i think... nurses are leaving the NHS for better paid jobs in the UK and abroad, our healthcare nurses are being actively recruited by other countries....

Newly qualified staff leave faster than they can be replaced...

Yes they knew they weren't going into a highly paid profession BUT they did expect to earn enough to live on and with inflation at 11% 27k isn't enough.

I'm not sure why you think a senior management nurse with e.g 30 years experience earning 70k shouldn't get a pay rise.... maybe you think they should go and work for Bupa/Spire etc and earn 85k instead?

However, as i said at the start of all this, Sunak will not relent, he will hang on until strike mandates ran out and inflation falls, nurses will end up with whatever the review body has said... his arrogance and contempt for normal people is beyond belief.

Amazed at the lack of insight by some of the posters on here who are so dogmatic and righteous, when they have no idea about nursing or NHS payscales.

Afc is a shitshow. Nurses should be paid on a different scale to all other ahps. What they do is entirely different to a podiatrist, physio, OT, speech therapist etc etc and should be paid accordingly. I am in no way denigrating other ahps in their importance or relevance but what Nurses do is not comparable.

Nurses do not operate in a bubble, they cannot do their jobs without AHPs... e.g not enough OTs and Physios.. patient discharges into the community do not happen.

Without AHPs, nurses cannot do their jobs and ofc vice versa.

Its a team.

At the end of the day.... without medical and non medical staff, no health service functions.

As I said, I am not denigrating ahps, but for me it is like comparing cheese and biscuits. Both very tasty individually and together but they are not made the same way or taste similarly. Nurses do their own jobs and often many other professionals jobs too. I have assessed and dressed feet for podiatrists, I have given dietary advice for dietitians, I have amended swallow guidelines in the absence of slt, I have assessed patients for equipment and delivered it in the absence of OTs. I do phlebotomy, cannulation, prescribe, order equipment and deal with relatives patients gps and consultants, daily. As a community nurse I am still there long after all the other professions have gone home and in before they start. While they're having a lunch break, I'm still working.

I cover a clinic, the other ahps have alloted times for their clients. No phones no interruptions. I on the other hand answer my mobile dealing with patients families, emergencies gps and consultants, and still do my clinic, still writing it up long after everyone else has gone home. I often meet my district nursing colleagues at the same time.

For me the level of responsibility is not comparable. Nurses duty of care has no limit.
The boundaries that exist for other ahps don't exist for nurses.

Don't doubt you do a great job but i don't see why your trying to make out you do so much more than other HCPs and there fore deserve more money.... its divisive.

I listen to what my DD does on a Cardio Vascular ward and the work loads are beyond belief for all staff, i ve never heard her run down other HCPs, even when nurses fcuk up.. which they do as does anyone subject to poor morale, staff shortages and extreme pressure.

She'd be the first to be grateful she doesn't do night shifts but then she doesn't get the extra money that brings either.

POV.. When I was in hospital during covid I never even came into contact with the nurse , it was the HCA that came and helped me, the HCA done my observations and the only time I saw the nurse was when she gave me the drugs. I spent more time with the HCA who I couldn’t have done without.

also my elderly gran’s district nurses stopped visiting during covid, again it was only the carers that came to visit her. Disgusting IMO. It was even on the news during the same time, other families had reported the same.

all nhs workers deserve a pay rise, not just nurses. But it’s unaffordable and the country is already in crisis. At the moment, for many, it’s just about getting by. But unfortunately carers earn £8/9 an hour and that’s just not enough.

if carers and other low paid workers went on strike I would support them, because I for one could not do their job

All healthcare workers deserve a pay rise ahps nurses hcas carers doctors. I just think that nurses should be on different payscales. Each profession has their own idiosyncrasies if course.

The government can afford to pay themselves and their tory cronies millions and billions ask michelle mone. Nadim Zahawi can avoid tax and unlike the rest of society evade prosecution for it. Then there is the prime ministers wife and her domicile status. If the torys were so concerned about balancing the books they could start by looking no further than their own back yard. It is worth remembering they didn't think nurses were worth paying for years before covid or any other tory induced financial crisis, ...I wonder why ???? Except we all know why and it has nothing to do with saving money but destroying the nhs.

@MarleneH Country can't afford it??? so what do you think will happen to the NHS then?

How come there is enough money to give each one the UK's 12m pensioners a 10.1% pay rise (many of whom are in the 40% tax bracket) there is £30bn for Liz Truss to spunk up and there is 10s billions to give the likes of Sunak and Zahawi subsidised electricity and gas but we can't afford to pay 500k HCP's ?

Unless we change our priorities, the NHS will be destroyed.

Yes.

Near me (not London) prison officers start on 32k with full training included.

I'm not denigrating their pay, they do a difficult job and deserve 32k, but it does suggest that B5 nurses deserve more than 27k after three years of uni and 4600 practice hours.

@Alexandra2001 your post is very decisive and actually rude.

All NHS staff deserve higher pay- the NHS does not run on nurses alone. For example nurses do not undertake imaging, they do not report imaging. Without diagnostic imaging, hospitals do not function.

you might as a nurse be able to undertake a small part of an OT or physios role but you are not able to act as a professional physio/OT.

AHP’s scrubbed in to surgeries last week to support the nurses on strike and ensure that operations went ahead to maintain patient care- they also worked on wards.this did not make them nurses and nor would they want to be. We are all proud of our professions and We can all do elements of each others roles- we are all health care professionals and we are all paid under AFC.

Sorry @Alexandra2001 my post should have been directed at @Poppygoestheweasel

@MarleneH
The fact that you were primarily cared for during your stay in hospital by a HCA, is precisely why nurses are striking. We didn’t become nurses to do only drug rounds and write notes, but unfortunately when you’re spread so thinly with so few staff covering so many patients, sometimes all you can manage is the bare minimum. This is why we’re striking, to improve care for people like you!

@Waitingaround ha ha i did wonder what i had done to deserve your very accurate post on the role of OT's Physio's etc.

No it will lead to deaths

The provisions in place to cover areas where staff are striking have MORE staff on duty than they currently run on. So id love to know how thats going to happen?