Do you agree with the nurses strike?

[borderterrierr]

Guardian reporting that the rcn strike has resulted in a yes vote and we'll be striking before Christmas.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/05/nurses-across-uk-vote-to-strike-in-first-ever-national-action?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Patient's emergency care will be protected but it's a strike vote

As this was directed to me in reality I will reply. I am a nurse and I am responding as a nurse. I have been a nurse for 37 years, all of them frustrated by how nurses have been treated and paid. I have seen nursing in all spheres, hospital, community, private sector and worked abroad. I have been through Thatcher, Blair, Cameron Bojo etc. Through all those years nurses were disrespected, undersold and underpaid in what they do. (Some worse than others)pre afc and post afc...and the subsequent erosion of anyadd ons eg community nurses limited mileage over the year...especially rural nurses whose 'mileage runs out' so they're paying to do their work. Disgusting.

I am not denigrating any other profession or their skills and knowledge and of course the nhs isn't a one man band. But it is nurses who are striking and ultimately every other ahp will benefit from a payrise should they be in any way successful. So I will reiterate my feeling that nurses should be on a separate payscale, it may not be a significantly 'better' payscale but skills roles and responsibilities should be better represented. If you are a physio/OT /radiographer then you may feel the same about your profession which you have every right question and to fight for. I will continue to fight for nurses as I always have.

I recently sat beside some social workers who laughed at the striking nurses and were saying they hoped they were successful because they would benefit. I know this isn't a global opinion but to me it suggests that we either all go out in some capacity or we are seen as individual professions fighting our own cause. Hence my stance as the government are all the more reluctant because what will benefit nurses will benefit every other healthcare professional. Every other professional though isnt striking. This makes the task all the harder and the cost higher. This is no-one particular persons/professions fault but the situation we find ourselves in is exacerbated by the truly woeful afc framework which often isn't applied appropriately or fairly.

I will repeat ALL ahps deserve better pay and conditions .

I completely agree with everything you've said about the comments being made on this thread. I work in imaging and it a very very different skill set than nursing. A nurse cannot do their job without imaging, cannot diagnose the conditions diagnostic radiographers can, they don't have anywhere near the knowledge of physics or follow the same regulations relating to IRMER and IRR. Nurses are overworked, underpaid & under appreciated, I fully support nurses striking but they aren't the only ones who work exceptionally hard within the NHS for piss poor pay and conditions. I'm sick of the narrative that nurses are worth more than any other HCP within the NHS. Every single patient that came into my hospital during the worst of Covid, went via imaging (portably or in department) before they even set foot on a ward. Every single one. Multiple times a day sometimes. Our hospitals wouldn't not run without imaging. Just like every other modality in healthcare. Every single one is responsible for running an efficient patient service. There are also other HCP's considering or already striking. Unfortunately, and despite a majority keen to strike, thanks to of government imposed thresholds, the Society of Radiographers didn't receive a big enough turnout for balloting a strike.

@Poppygoestheweasel
what we need is a pay increase across the NHS for all professions. The government divide and conquer. Let’s not do that for them.

.we have AFC as the vote was carried through by the nursing unions. Up until then professions worked different hours and pay scales were different. For example radiographers were paid the same as the other professions but only worked a 35 hour week. This probably wasn’t fair and was corrected with AFC (although the radiographers liked it!)

As we are all paid under AFC, as you say if the nurses strike works then we all benefit. However If AHP’s work across the wards on strike days they are helping patients and also the strike cause. We are one NHS, one system we must all look after each other and work together.

i expect other professions will strike soon- the physios have voted to I believe and I expect the radiographers and others will vote again soon.

I know many people working in the public sector on full time salaries of £20k. Some of them with 40 year's service. Those are the people I'm worried about.

@Poppygoestheweasel TBF to Blair, he consistently offered above inflation pay rises to nurses, up to the GFC.
Indeed, Blair gave nurses their first above inflation rise for over 10years.

Most Social workers aren't employed by NHS but by councils, OTs haven't been balloted and Physio's no doubt will strike and as said, AHPs are covering, you nurses can strike in the first place.....

You should also be careful what you wish for, requirements for a nurse degree course is lower than that of say an OT, so one could argue (i wouldn't) that nurses should start on a lower salary than AHPs.

Are you for fucking real? 🙄

@Poppygoestheweasel
Nurses do not belong on a separate pay scale - I’m puzzled what you think is so special that divides them from the rest. AFC was designed to harmonise the pay and is in nurses favour. They are the ones the government will screw over the most because there isn’t another major employer or sector to work in if they have their own payscale (and let’s be honest, it’s taken one hell of a lot of pay freezes and cuts for them to strike in the first place)

And tbh I would be careful what you wish for as by putting them on a separate pay scale, I have no doubt our disgusting government would reduce things like the unsocial hours premium, using arguments that nurses should expect it in their role. In the meantime, professions that are called upon less in the night would get more for the same work (just as a PP mentioned above). The junior doctors have been screwed over in this way already - staying in AFC means there is some more power in numbers

It is upsetting that there are some professions that think the nurses will do the hard work of striking so all benefit but this isn’t representative of all (and I’m sure I’ve said this to you in another thread as I’ve certainly read the social worker example before). The majority are overwhelmingly in support of the nurses because we believe they deserve more - no selfish intentions. They would be striking too but do not meet the minimum numbers required in ballots due to the way their professional bodies and unions operate.

I do believe many nursing roles should be a band above where they currently are (and this was the intention when AFC was first created). The problem was Tory austerity from 2010 onwards resulted in downgrading jobs and piling on more responsibility and so many are working at and being paid a band lower than was intended when pay scales were introduced

The issue is that you have to pay enough to attract people so that there aren’t so many vacancies. Staff aren’t getting paid enough, they are doing agency work to make ends meet. Trusts are paying huge amounts in agency fees. Most ward nurses and most community nurses are paid at band 5 level. Also the theatre nurses etc and more than likely the radiographers. Most physios and OT’s are band 6. I’ve been a nurse for 11 years and it took many years to be a band 6. I now have huge responsibilities that are never ending due to lack of availability of GP’s. Service I work for now visits patients when GP’s are unable to visit, most of which are very ill and need to go to hospital. The role of a nurse is ever revolving but the pay has dropped but more is asked of you. We have extra workload but unable to recruit staff. There comes a limit of how much overtime you can physically and mentally do. But also when you know that patients will suffer it’s hard to say no.
it’s not just about the money, nurses are striking because they are worried about patient care.

In that case how will striking be effective?

Staff covering aren't doing their normal jobs, operations are not happening & atm the public are on the side of the nurses.

However, i believe Sunak will not relent, he would let this dispute (and all the others) continue for years, he wont settle... so RCN's opening gambit was 18%, they ve dropped to 10%, Govt still say too much...

Remember, a failed NHS doesn't effect any of them, then can pay for any amount of treatment and if in an accident, will by pass normal NHS waits.

@Bettyboop3

It wont be.

I currently work within two trusts (one paid one shadowing for research purposes currently). In one trust they didnt vote to strike. In the other they did. On wed and thurs when the strikes happened, across all the staff that could strike, 12 did, and most of them were bank staff that weren't scheduled to work anyway. There was zero affected on patient care. This is because they are striking to raise public awareness not to compromise patient care.

If you take money out of the equation, the biggest issue is safe staffing. Would you not think the general public should support safe staffing? Is it not shocking to people outside of healthcare they is no legalities to support this? That a nurse can go into work for a 12 hour shift and have 15 patients? That that means each patient gets 48 minutes of care. Thats including all the paperwork, referrals, 3x medications that have to be mixed and preppared, iv checks, feeding whether orally or enterally, oxygen therapy and titrating, trache care, body mapping, dressing changes, chasing dr reviews, catheter/cannula/ng tube insertions and managements, 6 hourly observations atleast - post surgery these are 15 min for 2 hours, 30 min for two hours, hourly for 2 hours. Imaging if they had 5 patients in surgery that day?, safety checks, chaperoning to other departments for further testing/surgery. Some could be on 2 hourly repositioning, personal care, mobility assistance. Then you have all the stuff that isnt even with patient such as referring to outside agencies for care or physio, liasing with other teams from transfers, daily bed meetings (which yes our bad 5s are involved in) ordering and restocking drugs, checking the control drugs. Every nurse is a champion and has to complete audits and offer training to colleagues.

That isnt doable. We cant provide care for 15 patients. That is what has to change. But. Nurses can ONLY strike over pay, not conditions. So pay os now at the forefront of a conversation when that isnt the focus we want.