Do you agree with the nurses strike?

[borderterrierr]

Guardian reporting that the rcn strike has resulted in a yes vote and we'll be striking before Christmas.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/05/nurses-across-uk-vote-to-strike-in-first-ever-national-action?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Patient's emergency care will be protected but it's a strike vote

@lolalouisa84 yes I thought you might be a nurse. Have you ever done another job?

Yes, i retrained to be a nurse at 38 years old. Why?

Of course they should take action. Blame the Tories for 12 years of mismanaging the NHS and poor wages.

Totally in support with the nurses - these are one of the most valuable, worthwhile jobs in society and they are treated and paid appallingly. I hope their demands are met, we can't do without them.

Depends what your comparator is.

Compared to a footballer? Or a hedge fund manager?

Or even a graduate role? Teachers get more. Police officers get more.

The pay is ok for someone working in an office. Typing up some spreadsheets.

And in comparison to the national median. No. Its not bad. Especially not when you add in the enhanced rates, and sick pay, pensions etc

There are definitely much worse pay rates

But for what nurses actually do? If we're really talking about what we value as a society? Yeah. Its shit.

Loving that @antelopevalley is telling actually nurses how wrong they are about their own wages. I think she must think you cant be a band 5 for the whole of your career 🤣

I didnt vote in the end. I couldn't decide. Its not about pay for me. Although I absolutely think nurses deserve a massive raise. It's about the conditions we are being forced to work in and the absolute disregard for staff well being and pt safety.

The govt (Scottish and UK) are cutting health spending. Right now. They are telling trusts there is no money.

Things are not going to better without a complete change in funding for the NHS and social care

Is it poor nursing because it is difficult to do 2 or 3 peoples job when trying to manage your own workload simultaneously due to staff shortages, and unreasonable demands?

Band 5s may not prescribe but that doesn't mean their work is not valuable. I've worked with brilliant band 5s superb at their job they still have significant responsibility. They make decisions all day everyday. They train to be discerning in evaluating and providing appropriate care to be given to a patient. All nurses have to develop their skills with experience. If you are perpetually in an environment that lacks staff, regular staff, that don't know the environment it takes alot longer to do even the most simplest of tasks. I worked for years in a 2 manned very busy treatment room, my colleague went off on long term sick leave. Having a different staff nurse each and every day was nearly the undoing of me....and I was surrounded by doctors. I dont think you have any comprehension of the stress involved in those kinds of circumstances. It must be hell on wards.

The SEN you talk about started as an SEN but would have had to do further study or a degree dependent on when she became an RGN . She would also have had to do a degree to become an advanced practitioner and further to that to nurse prescribe. She is likely a band 7, fully deserved and with many advanced skills given her age, skills, responsibility and experience and rightly so. If you started as a secretary in an office and went on to do courses in advanced computer skills, accounts and people management you wouldn't expect to stay on the same wage. If this meant that you went from 20k to 60k why would anyone object if you did your job and met the remit. What you seem to be implying is that because some( and I emphasise SOME) nurses have a decent wage doesn't mean that all nurses have the same privilege or opportunity.

Yes, 100%.

Maybe we just need to accept that nurses won’t nurse forever?
Most other professions don’t stay in the same role or company forever. If you want to progress, you need to upskill and change companies, or at least roles.
My experience is within scientific and engineering industries, and I know many people with BSc degrees in various sciences. They start on £21-24k, hit £27-30k and stay there forever, unless they move roles and/or companies.

Nursing changed to a degree, why shouldn’t it’s graduates do the same?

Its actually interesting because the majority of new grads we get are desperate to progress, it’s all we hear. We really struggle to get people to stay in the lower-level roles. In the past, people happily did these roles for 40 years. Now they want to progress constantly and quickly. We put it down to societal pressure to always be the best, always want more, never have enough, aim higher… probably combined with the cost of living/housing.

My point being, now that nursing is not a vocational qualification, I don’t see why nursing and nurses would be different to any other industry. Maybe best just to accept they’ll leave for other opportunities and plan that in

Maybe we just need to accept that nurses won’t nurse forever?

A young and inexperienced workforce isn't something that's good for an organisation. Attempts should be made to retain experienced staff rather than just haemorrhaging them and going 🤷‍♀️

👏🙌this

Oh dear.

Your complete ignorance is showing.

The Government are not going to win this either. There are 7 million people on waiting lists in England. They can't afford this strike. They can't recruit now, so they are screwed on this and so much else.

And there will be many others. Just wait until the budget comes in a fortnight. Unless there are decent pay deals for the public sector then the Government will be in chaos until the next election.

How will the strikes work then? Will patients just be left to it?

Of course not, christmas day staffing levels will be used, which in most ward areas, is the same as any other days, but will probably end up being covered by agency and bank staff who don't know the specialty or ward area as well as contracted staff, however, being covered by agency and bank is also whats happening day - day so it wont be much different.

@Katypp this is just for information as you clearly don't know but newly qualified nurses are running whole wards alone.
I was 13 weeks post registration on my own as the only nurse to 14 patients, during COVID highly clinically vulnerable and many of whom were sectioned under the Mental Health Act. There were no doctors,no occupational therapists, no managers. Just me the most 'senior' at 3 months in at the bottom of band 5. In case your wondering we are supposed to have 1 year post qualification of supported practice where we are not supposed to be the most qualified but this doesn't happen.
I was a band 5 in social services for 5 years without a registration and significantly less responsibility. I have two degrees, post grad study and have worked in several sectors. You don't have an accurate understanding of the nursing role or the responsibilities it entails and as such your view of 'claptrap' is just that.

I remember when you could train on the job to be a nurse or paramedic. I know the degree aspect put me off, as I already had one degree but wanted to get back into care work which is very underpaid and would have been a nurse if I could have trained on the job. But more student debt wasn't an option.

They need to bring it back. I would strike for that. I think this would solve the staffing crisis. It can't just be me who was put off nursing or even paramedic due to needing a degree?

they have brought back apprenticships in most areas, still a degree qualification, but funded by the trust and offered mostly to those who have worked as band 2 HCA's but also open to the public, no student debt and paid for your time.

They also have a 2 tier training system, where you can work as a HCA and progress doing a 2 year, again funded, uni course to get to band 4 nursing associate, his can then be topped up to full registered nurse status with 18 months of study.

There is also the OU in some trusts, which is 4 years, paid, less debt, and fully qualified. Though this option is less common.

Then the standard 3 year degree self-funded with student finance.

Theres numerous routes, but degree-level study is required now as the role of the nurse has changed vastly since it was introduced.

If you were pit off by needing a degree the job isn't for you.

Should we apply that thinking to other roles?

Teaching?

There's a staffing crisis. Let's just make teachers 'learn on the job'

Or doctors?

Staffing crisis there. Sure there's loads of people would like to be doctors but are put off by the degree

Nursing already is 50% placements (learning on the job) and there are lots of routes into Nursing

It absolutely needs to be a degree course

How will the strike work? Will it be specified days, and low-level staffing arranged on those days and non-urgent work cancelled? Or long-term every day for as long as it takes to get agreement? I do support the strikes but it depends a bit on how it's done

Yes they deserve better pay. Usually they won't completely strike they'll have bare minimum staff in as they won't want to risk patients lives

Absolutely!

I don’t think we have any choice but to support them really, the alternative is unthinkable, we need the nhs to be properly funded and staff who are valued and paid their worth. I have needed to call on them a lot these last few years, I’d be dead if they hadn’t have come through for me. Yes I fully support the nurses, and the paramedics in their strike action, it’s not something they are doing easily.

I fully supported the junior doctors too.

100%

Only when folks are seriously inconvenienced will anything change.

Their terms and conditions are shocking.

And fucking claps don't pay the bills.

@lolalouisa84 you'll have to tell me how you came to £27k equating to £10ph when the nmw is £9.18ph and £19k.

@Topgub how am I ignorant? I might not agree with the hive but that doesn't mean that I am ignorant. Unless you routinely insult those who don't agree with you?