To think Rishi is right - the government cannot be everything to everyone?

[Cuppasoupmonster]

Don’t get me wrong, the Tory government hasn’t tried to be anything let alone everything.

But I think he was right when he said there’s too much reliance on the state to provide for each and every issue the public face.

We could free up a lot of funds by taxing big corporations properly, cracking down on non doms etc. But even then, I’m not convinced the socialist utopia of generous benefits, a five star NHS, cheap and available high quality public housing, instant mental health support etc that is often discussed on here could ever be financially viable.

AIBU?

The net contributors are the people who pay more than they extract even when all of these services are taken into account. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp.

These people are being bled dry while the majority if the population pay a pittance compared to the services they use.

In any society with welfare some people will not be net contributors. But to narrow the tax base so that only 10% of people are is madness and a recipe for the instability we see now.

Yanbu. Too many people think they can make whatever life choices they fancy and the government/tax payers should pick up the tab. Such as people who don't bother to work full-time but expect benefits, people who don't turn up to medical appointments because they are 'free', people who think they are entitled to a state funded house with multiple bedrooms without bothering to work for it themselves.

Thank you. Shame more people haven't read and comprehended it. So we'll carry on as we are I guess with everyone getting poorer year on year.

Government are there to represent our interests and organise and administer large scale schemes for the benefit of the citizens of that country.

That's it. I don't think they need to solve any problems, just prevent them by settings things up for us and running them and leaving us alone to live our self-determining lives.

The benefits scheme is brilliant too if run haphazardly sometimes, but I've used it many times and it's been a great help to get me back on my feet.

Ultimately we have to take initiative and do things for ourselves.

The more I hear Rishi talk the more I dislike him. He comes across snobbish and smug. He is so out of touch with reality how could he ever relate to the problems the a vast majority of the uk population are having. He speaks for the millionaires and the top percent earners not every day people.

Have you seen that lovely video of him as a stufent where he laughs about not having any working class friends, "obviously"?

This way before he married a billionnaire.

He has many skills and is clearly bright, but has no clue about how his decisions impact people less well off than him. He has also clearly soent little time studying socio-economic models across time and countries so that he can make sensible choices now.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel. Crises are not new. Difficult choices are not new. There is plenty of evidence from well-managed economies about what works, for social stability and economic success. He will no doubt choose the opposite. So people should question the motivation. Or at least, they should. But based on this thread so far, most will not: they will continue with their "everyone should pay but me" mentality and buy into his propaganda.

@AliensAteMyHomework "The net contributors are the people who pay more than they extract even when all of these services are taken into account. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp.
These people are being bled dry while the majority if the population pay a pittance compared to the services they use."

How will the government extract more tax from people who already don't earn enough to feed, house and provide a warmth for themselves and their families? These people have already been bled dry and have nothing left to give, and yet the government seem intent on making life even more unbearable for them. Or is that a concept that is too difficult for Conservatives to grasp?

This will all become a lot more real after the budget when tax bands freeze, and the effective rate of tax goes up but we all get much less.

@Croque - the Civil Service you decry actually told Liz Truss that she risked Britain becoming a third world economy with her mini budget. She listened the second time alas. I don't mind having a Civil Service that can still stand up to political insanity and understand the market.

You create a society where all can contribute by increasing productivity so that they can. Per my earlier posts.

Does nobody here have even a basic grasp of economics or look at the stats? Bo wonder we end up in such a mess if people don't even understand the very basics of economics? Yet come on here to express opinions and whinge?

FFS Now we go on Grand Designs to figure out how much a new Hospital will cost!

Then again you also have zero clue as to why glass is used in modern buildings.

Have you ever wondered why glass is used in commercial buildings the world over?

Though i'm also pretty sure that in patient secure areas, we wont all be able to take a peak to see how that heart surgery is going.

Did you vote for Governments that would improve productivity (and therefore your salary)? Did you lobby your MP for policies to do this? Did you object to Brexit? Have you emailed your MP to tell them to rejoin the single market?

No?

Then you're complicit in this mess.

Indeed. As you say they recently saved us and we should all be fucking grateful. Especially given their 1% payrise to 10% inflation this year.

Fat to cut?

Delusional.

Good luck getting anything useful to happen to fix this mess without them. Many are leaving already.

This is for @Havanananana

Yes I objected to Brexit at the ballot box. I might as well lobby my dog as my MP. There’s no point in lobbying a Tory who thought Johnson would be a good choice of PM. And I keep voting for a new government but, given that I live in a Tory, leave voting constituency, that’s a fool’s errand too.

@AliensAteMyHomework "You create a society where all can contribute by increasing productivity so that they can. Per my earlier posts.
Does nobody here have even a basic grasp of economics or look at the stats? No wonder we end up in such a mess if people don't even understand the very basics of economics?"

I think plenty of people on here have a good grasp of economics and can see for themselves the impact of the incompetence and mismanagement of successive governments over the last 30 years or more. Look for example at Germany - an economy that grew from the ruins of WW2, and successfully integrated an entire country (East Germany) in the 1990s on the basis of making things that people want to buy and selling them at a price that people could afford. British politicians and industrialists relied on the Empire for cheap raw materials and for a captive market (the Empire countries were forced for many years to buy shoddy British goods) and spent decades gloating about winning the war - without ever realising that they were losing the peace. When the British governments of the 1970s and 1980s backed the wrong horse when they decided that manufacturing and innovation were old hat and that services were the way forward, the country started a slow but steady downward spiral.

What I'm seeing in many of the comments is a continuation of the "other people" argument that the Conservatives in particular like to use. "Other people" are responsible for the current economic situation. "Other people" ought to be paying more tax. "Other people" - particularly NHS workers and civil servants - are to be labelled scapegoats and vilified. All the while, the Conservatives are feathering their own nests, running down the NHS and education sectors to provide a steam of customers for their private-sector chums, selling off the nation's assets (Council houses, infrastructure, utilities, North Sea Oil etc) to their connections and thus depriving the country in general of income while the new owners milk the system.

What is really interesting is that the "squeezed middle" are now discovering that they too are going to be targeted for higher taxes and poorer services. That they are squealing cuts little ice with those who have been struggling for the last decade or more - those who would dearly love to become more productive, have a better education and future for their children and better care for their elderly relatives, but who have nothing left to give and whose already meagre support is about to be cut further.

So do I. But believe me, they still take notice when/ if their inbox fills with angry emails from a large proportion of constituents saying they will not elect them again if they don't do something obviously sensible and no brainer e.g. single market membership. So everyone in every constituency should be doing this. Again and again until so that they understand that no, we won't accept tax rises and service cuts at all until you've at least done what you can to repair the totally unnecessary damage you have done to us all on purpose.

Britain is in a political crisis - our society is in decline. The great issue is that many people who think that they have security of a middle class life are seeing it's built on sand - if you haven't got actual assets, not debts, then you are in trouble. A lot of people kid themselves otherwise, but in recessions it is assets that matter, not the appearance of a nice lifestyle.

The same with schools - I recently decided a private school will be better than a state school. That is nothing to do with the quality of the education but all to do with the cuts and difficulties to come. It does not matter I live in a naice area. Those cuts will affect the education and resources available for state schooling.

You’re not listening. Where I live has been a Tory seat since 1780, it used to be Major’s seat, way back before that it was Oliver Cromwell’s. No way is my MP’s inbox going to fill with angry emails. It’s a waste of time and energy.

Most people don't really understand SM membership, what it would mean or how we get there.

This shouldn't need to be driven by the public at all, leaders (the clue is in the name) should make decisions that benefit the UK and that applies equally to the opposition when they come up with policies/manifesto.

Most people don't really understand SM membership, what it would mean or how we get there.

If they didn't understand it perhaps they should have listened to the much maligned experts who did. Or opted not to vote on something they didn't understand.

Given they decided to vote anyway and make things significantly harder than they needed to be for everyone, sympathy is in short supply.

If they wish to restore a sense of solidarity then admit the mistake and take measures to try to fix it, instead of blaming everyone else for the mess they created.

You’re not listening. Where I live has been a Tory seat since 1780, it used to be Major’s seat, way back before that it was Oliver Cromwell’s. No way is my MP’s inbox going to fill with angry emails. It’s a waste of time and energy.

I understand your frustration. Where I live is similar. However, many seats that used to be safe are less so now. And even those that are, the politicians DO get scared and speak to colleagues when thousands of constituents email them with anger about an issue. Everybody should be doing this, then things WOULD change. Instead we have apathy and everyone claiming everyone else should pay for the Government's mistakes. Always only everyone earning more than they are, of course.

So stupid and if people continue to do the same they'll gey the same results and get poorer and poorer.

"In the short-term, a balance of payments deficit isn't necessarily bad or good. It does mean that, in real terms, there is more importation than exportation occurring until the value of money adjusts."

So. presuming with other factors etc, could our countries balance sheet be fortified ?

In which case I want my taxes back, thanks.

What matters to me is that the government are there for the people who need them. I have a horrible feeling that, when he says the government can’t be everything for everyone, Rishi is saying he’s OK with some people falling through the cracks. And he is more on the side of his rich chums than the ordinary man or woman in the street.

I certainly find it hard to believe that he has any understanding or appreciation whatsoever of what it is like to have no money left for heating or food, or to be in financial circumstances where every penny is accounted for, there is no contingency at all, for new school shoes, or if the car or an appliance breaks down, or even to cope when prices go up.