The state of the NHS right now is terrifying

[Faciadipasta]

I am feeling genuinely scared for us as a country health care wise. I was reading today about a chap who died of internal bleeding while his family were kept on hold to 999 for 10 minutes as nobody even answered the phone.
Then there are all the people who die while waiting for an ambulance to arrive, because they are all lined up.outside the hospitals unable to offload their patients.
People can't see a GP at all, so there are bound to be loads who are dying of things that could have been prevented if they'd been seen. Waits at A and E are enormous and they don't even have enough chairs so people with serious injuries or illnesses are having to just sit on the floors in the corridors.
We're actually starting to feel like one of those warzone countries that you see on the news and it is scaring me shitless.
I mean even in the US you wouldn't just be left to die because there was nobody to answer the phone although admittedly you'd probably end up bankrupt for paying back the care, but at least you wouldn't be dead!
I personally feel like we have no care, no safety net. And it's scary.
Will it get better? What can be done?

As a nation we don't help ourselves, we eat too much, don't take exercise, drink too much and take drugs. Yes I am generalising but a lot of issues wouldn't be there if we were all healthier.

Secondly we don't expect to be ill, we want instant gratification, we should expect coughs colds etc, but we don't we ring and demand appointment's with GP, when most illness will run themselves out, ringing and demanding an appmnt for a headache when you haven't even taken a paracetomol is ridiculous! Yes this does happen.

If we used GP/Pharmacist correctly, this may relieve pressure on a&E

But ultimately we need good social care, this is where the blockage is in hospital, lack of good social care for our elderly.

People are getting appointments regularly with their GP, but they are not always the ones who most need them!

Yes agree with all this too

I've worked a shift in ICU today
We have a patient in who doesn't need an ICU bed but has been in 3 weeks as we can't find a suitable place for them to go! One bed.
We cannot admit into that bed.
We have to provide a nurse.
Today we had capacity to accept the 3 admissions.
My unit is now full.
We cannot admit any more, but this PT will remain with us as there's no where for them.

We could stop spending billions on covid vaccines that at best don't work very well!

Evidence please?
ICU are not overrun with Covid
Each one I've seen, covid is an incidental finding .

In my family we've had two emergencies in the past few months and an ambulance came immediately and there was excellent care. One time it was called for us by 111 who correctly diagnosed it was an emergency . There's definitely a massive issue but it's not all bad , we've had a really good experience both times .

But I agree about social care. My relative was bed blocking for at least a week and in the end we discharged him without a care package (which luckily has been fine )

The efficacy of the vaccines is well documented. You’re being deliberately provocative or are seriously challenged in the grey matter department and struggling to understand basic data.

We definitely need to be a little less dependent and start treating coughs, colds, D&V, warts, verrucas, earwax, cracked feet, everyday headaches, bites and stings with over the counter or homely remedies. We also need to understand that GPs aren’t there to parent or sort bad behaviour and that sometimes short term sadness and worries are normal emotions, not mental health problems.

@MintyFreshOne
@sorrynotathome

This isn't true. Hospitals and A&E in the US must provide care regardless of insurance status.

For anyone interested, some statistics on Americans and health insurance since the introduction of the ACA

www.statista.com/topics/3272/obamacare/#dossierKeyfigures

Yep we have literally gone back in time, how depressing 😕 Why oh why did the public allow this to happen?

It would be interesting to see if there were any statistics on the proportion of health service users who actually go in for thise things, because I'm sure it's a tiny minority and not the reason health services are struggling

The system is broken. I was refered urgently to see a neurosurgeon as I have spinal cord compression. The referral was made in june 2021 and I have an appointment in Dec.
I have been ringing every month after waiting a year, and was removed from the list at one point. Apparently an admin error.
I live with daily headaches, am losing sensation in my arms and my balance has been affected.
I am a nurse and know how hard everyone on the frontline works there just aren't enough medical staff and nurses. I also object to people saying that staff go off sick to play the system. I have not taken time off and have swopped my shift for my appointment.
There are seven million on waiting lists, 10 hour waits in A&E and it's almost impossible to see my G.P.
I don't know what the answers are but we need to fix it before it completely falls apart.

It’s more common than you think- when my children were small I remember lots of parents going to the doctor with their children for coughs, colds, upset stomachs etc.Maybe now it’s physically impossible to see a doctor people will take a more sensible approach.
The trouble is that once you’ve given it the 3 days to see if things will settle and it hasn’t and you need an appointment but can’t get one, things can end up escalating like the poor person upthread who undoubtedly cost the NHS way more when a simple course of antibiotics early on would have sorted it.
It then becomes a self perpetuating downward spiral. There’s no easy answer, but clinging to the old model isn’t working.
The NHS has never balanced the books- not even at the beginning.

In 2015 it was 13.2% of GP attendances for all ages that were more appropriate for treatment with over the counter remedies.

The proportion of frequent attenders has increased over past five years. This might be expected during a pandemic with an ageing population but a sizeable number are children. Frequent attenders tend to be from a certain socioeconomic demographic and is likely reflective of reduced public sector support particularly in poor areas. Loss of family centres, loss of sure start, parenting groups, reduced HV and social work support, greater social isolation result in higher attendance at GPs doors.

Thing is, a patient wouldn't necessarily know when to see a doctor or not.
I had pneumonia several years ago, when I eventually went to the doctor, I got told off for not coming sooner. The following year, I got sick with what felt like the exact same symptoms at the exact same level and went to a walkin centre. I got told off there for seeking medical attention for something that can be looked after at home.

PFI rightly gets a bad name but what was the alternative? add 100s of billions to the national debt, PFI kept these costs of the national balance sheet, government borrowing costs shoot up, then comes GFC, followed by CV and Ukraine - bigger picture is PFI gave future Govt's the head room to borrow.

We would also have had no new hospitals without it and then where would we be now?

We had, in real terms 0 or 1% increases (whilst med inflation was running at 4% in the '10's) in NHS spending during austerity, transferred training costs to students and now wonder why the health service is a mess.

The proportion of frequent attenders has increased over past five years. This might be expected during a pandemic with an ageing population but a sizeable number are children.

Is there evidence of this? I'm surprised that it would have increased during the pandemic when most people were trying to avoid healthcare settings!

@Whizzi24

People avoiding health care settings only really lasted for the first long down

And since then there has been a massive increase.

That lock down caused a huge number of problems

There is. Note it isn't all attendances (although they've increased hugely) but frequent attenders I am talking about. Those for whom other sources of support have vanished with the first philosophical stance of austerity.

It effectively ceased to exist a while ago. None of the treatment people in my family need is being done at all.

While the numbers of people contacting NHS 111 and phoning for an ambulance were above pre-pandemic levels – and at historic highs – other measures of activity, such as elective care and emergency admissions, remained at or below those seen in 2019

Health.org.uk March 2022.

A poor health service has costs.

The Health Foundation’s analysis finds that by the second quarter of 2022, 200,000 older workers (age 50–69) had left employment due to ill-health since the start of the pandemic: the biggest contributor to the recent rise in economic inactivity for that group. Ill-health is defined as 'people reporting they are temporarily sick or injured or long-term sick and disabled'

I guess I am just surprised that there are people who wish to spend hours hanging on the phone at 8am in the hope they might get an appointment for their verruca!

What I have noticed as my DC is suffering from an ongoing medical issue that nobody seems to diagnose, is the lack of joining the dots which I think also wastes time. We have had to have several appointments over the last three or four months, all a huge hassle to arrange. Managed to get a face to face appointment back in the summer holidays (great for me as a teacher) with an issue. However, the GP did not examine my DC at the time and prescribed cream by listening to me describe symptoms. Might as well have been a phone appointment. Then could only get phone appointments for the next 6 weeks. After nearly 2 months, managed to get the first face-to-face appointment where someone actually examined her. They suspected possible hernia so did an ultrasound referral but was worried it would take too long so sent us to A&E (of course, if we had a speedy referral system, A&E visit would not have been necessary). Also, if the first GP had just done an examination, we could have ruled out the things they kept prescribing antibiotics for which turned out to be for a misdiagnosis.

Seen by surgical team at A&E - ruled out hernia but thought it might be another condition which needed diagnosing via ultrasound. Roll on ultrasound scan 4 weeks later and the radiologist is only looking for hernia symptoms even though that had already been ruled out. He only checked for the other issue because I, the parent, raised it as a possibility. Now DC might have to have an MRI scan, but I can't find out more until the report is read by a doctor at my surgery, which will take a week even though it is sent automatically to them electronically and added to DC's file. Then I will have to make another appointment to talk through next steps as I feel like I am the only one actually in possession of all the information. It is such a ludicrous and time consuming system.

@Whizzi24 you're right
The system is so bloody fragmented and no one talks to each other and the lack of documentation between department is truly frightening

Yes, I guess best case is inefficient, worst case serious issues must be missed.

Perhaps smaller, local diagnostic hubs where you could have x-rays, blood tests, ultrasounds etc could help the system so people didn't always have to go to hospitals. Of course, many smaller hospitals where these sorts if things used to be done have been closed down over the years.