The state of the NHS right now is terrifying

[Faciadipasta]

I am feeling genuinely scared for us as a country health care wise. I was reading today about a chap who died of internal bleeding while his family were kept on hold to 999 for 10 minutes as nobody even answered the phone.
Then there are all the people who die while waiting for an ambulance to arrive, because they are all lined up.outside the hospitals unable to offload their patients.
People can't see a GP at all, so there are bound to be loads who are dying of things that could have been prevented if they'd been seen. Waits at A and E are enormous and they don't even have enough chairs so people with serious injuries or illnesses are having to just sit on the floors in the corridors.
We're actually starting to feel like one of those warzone countries that you see on the news and it is scaring me shitless.
I mean even in the US you wouldn't just be left to die because there was nobody to answer the phone although admittedly you'd probably end up bankrupt for paying back the care, but at least you wouldn't be dead!
I personally feel like we have no care, no safety net. And it's scary.
Will it get better? What can be done?

Again, that old adage, 'a stitch in time saves nine' comes into play. The NHS is firefighting. There's no prevention, there is no early intervention. People with simple ailments end up seriously ill. People with cancers or other diseases which can be easily treated with early detection are not being seen by anyone until it's too late. The cost of a GP visit and a prescription for antibiotics vs an ambulance crew and admission for sepsis?

Do the maths!
It's a disastrous health system.
Even at the extreme end in the US, their system is performing better than ours.
There are very many state-sponsored health systems in the EU however.

I don't know how widespread this is but a high proportion of the clinical support staff I know who leave are going to work in health industries (clinical trials, pharma) as they don't have to work weekends, nights etc which has been newly imposed on them. So many trusts say they have family friendly policies but are reluctant to allow flexible working or part time so that person leaves.
No wonder the NHS is short staffed the bosses are still in the the mind set of this is a vocation you are expected to give up everything outsidework

The cost of a GP visit and a prescription for antibiotics vs an ambulance crew and admission for sepsis?

Yep, I had a simple infection and couldn't get a GP appt and was refused treatment by A&E and 111 because 'computer says no.'

Ended up blue lighted to hospital for 5 days with sepsis.

Do you know what I thought was weird actually. It was the opening ceremony of the London Olympics. Nobody could figure out what they were watching until a commentator stated that it was a display of the NHS of which the UK is extremely proud.

How many hundreds there in comparison? This is where they're failing.

Never mind the fact that you could have lost your life.

The funny thing is that what that depicted in 2012 is happening in the reverse now. Whereas it starts out with the grim reaper and nurses as drones, it then progresses to happy times where all the children are getting better and the nurses are jumping for joy, the reverse is happening.

I honestly felt that I was dying - that I was going to die in my house, and there was nothing I could do about it. It was the most terrifying feeling to go to A&E, be sent home, call 111 and be told 'don't call again,' call the GP and be told the earliest appointment was 2 weeks away.

I eventually had to pay for a private walk in GP who said they'd never seen such an advanced form of this infection, gave me antibiotics and I needed to be in hospital on an IV but there might not be any beds so should probably just go home.

The decision was made for me when I collapsed on the way home and called 999.

It scares me to think this will just get more common.

This is a better one. It explains that it's for the patients and staff of Great Ormond Street hospital.

Ok, link not working.

I've also been in a similar position. It is scary.

If you search "Olympics Opening Ceremony rehearsal NHS GOSH scene" on youtube, it should come up.
GOSH is a world-leading hospital. But if it's not working anymore.....?

Absolutely correct - the inability to get rid of incompetent staff who play the system means good staff are under so much pressure they become genuinely ill. The NHS is full of employees who want to get paid for no work and the full pay / half pay for a year does nothing to discourage them. I would love to see Elon Musk style solutions - if you can't work sorry it's not a fucking charity !

I laugh on mumsnet when the same posters who encourage people to just call in sick or get a few weeks sick line are the same ones complaining about the waiting times to access services.

I think we're at a point where if you have a genuine life threatening emergency, you don't call 999 you call anyone with a car. A friend, a relative, chap on a neighbour or even phone a taxi.

Recently lost a friend who I fully believe would still be with us if we'd done this sooner.

Can't go on like this .

The problem with co-payment or an insurance-style system is that so many people would be exempt, for one reason or another. Currently 90% of prescriptions are free of charge (all over 60s etc).

@somethinsomethin sorry about your friend. It can be a tough call knowing what’s the right thing to do. OTOH someone was telling me she wants to sue the ambulance trust as she was told it’d be a 3h wait and to make her own way to the hospital. She did ask a neighbour but thought taxiing was part of the service.

I worked in GP for years before I retired. The first GP arrived at 7.30 am and worked through till about 4, the next arrived about 10.00 and worked through to 7.30pm. Lunch times were meetings/clinical and budget, there were 3 partners and they did 2 late evening surgeries, 3 early bird surgeries, baby clinics, minor surgery, care home visits, and a Saturday morning surgery. They were also part of the the 111 GP on call service. Just because a GP is available in the surgery 3 days a week doesn't mean they are sat with their feet up doing nothing. Part time for a GP is usually more than average full time hours for a lot of employees. We need more GPs and there simply aren't enough.

Having a look around the Google it seems real terms spending has increased over time. Orange line for health. the Covid years up sharply which makes sense.

Grey line up hugely too which is likely all the furlough etc

Social protection up steadily probably mostly due to ageing population.

Heath and social protection (welfare and pensions) is about half of total spend.

We are heading into an ageing population
‘The UK's population is undergoing a massive age shift. There are over 11 million people aged 65 and in ten years' time this will have increased to 13 million people, 22% of the population.’

This is hard to deal with especially when a political party finds it hard, or we do, to talk about what is facing us and how to do it with the NHS model. A model that was good but was conceived before these issues became more pronounced.

And they'd understand waste disposal and air filtration systems how?
Doctors are employed to provide medical and surgical care not to run an SSD department or make soup.

Yes and you can see from your graph, it pretty much flat lined between 2010 and 2015 and did not increase significantly after that until CV.

Blair almost doubled the amount spent - since 2010 it has gone nothing like as much (CV aside) & thats why we are in a mess.
What was the first thing the Tories did after 2015? removed the bursary & hasn't that worked out so well!

Remember too, medical inflation runs at approx double that of CPI and in real terms, a nurse earns around 20% less now. than he/she was on in the mid 90s.

On sickness rates in NHS, perhaps @PolaDeVeboise can struggle in with a heavy cold or a strapped up ankle in office/WFH and get by, a Porter/Paramedic/Nurse/Dr cannot.

Blair used PFI which cost a fortune and takes years to pay off. Are we still? If so that’s adding to the problem we face today.

Looking it up they have stopped using PFI contracts but

A total of 101 NHS trusts are still on the hook for just under £50bn in future unitary payments, despite severe upcoming budgetary challenges, according to a Guardian analysis of hospital trust accounts

We can’t just overinflate through PFI and get real spend that way it just kicks the can to us.

And outside that issue if you want to increase health and social protection past half government total expenditure, where from?For the ageing population issue

Incoming ‘tax the rich’ - to a point as the top end have options, middle won’t take much more taxing

Plus net zero issue looming which costs