To ask if you'd be friends with me?

[3LeggedFlamingo]

Going out on a limb and putting myself up for a slating here, but in the effort to better understand people and how they react to me I've decided to ask here...

I have recently been diagnosed with ADHD. All my life I have struggled with not fitting in, feeling out of place in the world and battling depression due to underachieving in life. On the surface to other people I think I seemed to have my shit together, and I could cope alright except for keeping on top of my post, bills, emails, and things at work. Not things my friends would see though. Although I was always a hit socially awkward for fear of saying the wrong thing and looking stupid.

After I had my second child I think my brain just kind of fried itself. My ADHD symptoms got worse and I couldn't cope anymore. I had made a few parent friends from my first child's class, and a few of us were quite close. But I can tell for the past couple of years (seemed to align with the arrival of my second child and my ADHD symptoms worsening) that a couple of my closest friends are distancing themselves from me without any real understanding as to why from myself. I do understand that I can appear quite scatty and flakey and at times it might look like I don't care or I'm not listening, so....

AIBU by wondering if the below would a) put you off being friends with me and / or b) if I took the plunge and told you that I did hade ADHD would you be a little more understanding and accepting of why I am the way I am. Or have I already burnt those bridges?

Some of my ADHD traits / symptoms:

Forgetting to read / reply to texts for days / weeks. But when I finally do I always apologise for taking so long.

Forgetting names, faces, details of conversations. After 6 years, I still don't know the names of some of the children in my child's class or their parents even though I see them everyday. This can make conversations with friends difficult because I have to pretend I know who they're talking about

Constantly seeming a bit disorganised & forgetful

Being late more often than not

Forgetting birthdays / important dates like when they're off on holiday and where

I can't do small talk. I have no idea how to do this. Most friendships are superficial because I don't know how to take the friendship to the next level by talking about spouses, family details, life, etc. I just tend to talk about the same stuff like the weather, what are they did or are doing on the weekend. Inevitably I'll forget and ask the same thing the next time I see them.

Slow to talk / think during a conversation because I'm thinking about 1000 different things at the same time and over analysing what I'm saying. I can seem bored, tired and uninterested

My house is always a mess so I don't invite people over. It also never occurs to me to invite other children over for play dates.

Would this piss you off? Would you be a bit more understanding if you knew I had ADHD and couldn't really help by doing the above stuff?

I can't really change my brain and who I am. But I'd like to try and understand what annoys people and if there's something (anything I can do) to help make myself a little more relatable and better friends with my "friends" (all fairly superficial).

I think it’s really hard to make new friends as an adult as it is really, but even more so in your situation. It takes time to build a relationship - teens and young people have the time! - adults don’t and mums even less so. I’ve got really close friends from when I was young and know sure as hell I wouldn’t be able to make a good connection with them if I just met them now. I’d find one of my closest friends incredible irritating and shallow if I took what she said at face value and another incredibly boring because she doesn’t make much conversation when others are around. But because we have a long history and a relationship built over time I know better. They are neither shallow or boring but I think to strangers can easily come across that way. A new connection as an adult needs to be quite instant in my experience and it sounds like your symptoms of ADHD and difficulty making conversation will make this quite impossible. People just don’t have the time or mental energy to make allowances for that - it’s for your benefit after all, not theirs, the owe you no favours - I do think you’re best off being honest about your ADHD as it will hopefully make others more understanding a more patient - if they react badly, fuck em. Some people are just genuinely a bit inconsiderate and don’t care - they behave like you do but in your case it’s not intentional and I think that makes a big difference. For what it’s worth I would be your friend if I understood that - but no, I wouldn’t make time for someone who I didn’t know well and can’t be bothered to engage with me properly if I didn’t know any better. Why would I?

I had a reminder for a weekly standing appointment go off on my phone yesterday and I absent mindedly switched it off because I wasn’t present in the moment and just instinctively quenched an irritating noise.

I had to triple some for similar reason. Honestly, the smartphones are just amazong in this, aren't they.

I have these bursts when I organise everything (usually when deadline looming). I mean or.ga.nise.
In these bursts I started utilising all technology and non technology available.

Tbf I was diagnosed young and there was no medication so only options were totally forced coping mechanisms resulting in massive arguments, of course, and crying. But it worked. I still force occasionally a "training" with set time of colouring adult books. Fuck me. It's exhausting not to move onto something else and you can honestly see every minute it gets worse and lines are kept like by BMW drivers at tesco car park.
Very old style stuff, not for everyone at all

I doubt I would be good friends with you. If a friendship starts to feel as if I am making more effort than the other person, or that the person isn’t that bothered about me, I would just let the friendship drift and prioritise my other friends.

I do have a couple of flaky friends who I’m happy to see, but I would never make plans with them unless I was OK with the plans falling through - so I might make a plan if I would be equally happy with a night in on my own, but I wouldn’t plan to see you if I knew I wanted to go out.

I have autism and ADHD and have a friend with this also. Our difficulties seem polar opposite at times and she is often slow to talk which I sometimes find frustrating, but once we get going it's fine. I think she finds me abit overwhelming and too talkative so we don't meet often haha but really respect and like each other alot :D

I have no idea whether or not I'd be friends with you, because to me, friendships evolve naturally and are sometimes with people you have lots in common with and sometimes with the most unlikely people.

Bottom line for me is that friendship is reciprocal and equal. By that, I don't mean counting up every event, and weighing up the number of birthday cards received etc. but equal in that i know they care about me as much as I care about them, they're loyal and won't let me down.

I'd assume you didn't want to be friends with me so would distance myself.
Knowing that you have adhd would definitely make a difference.

Thank you for all the replies. I'm only just getting a chance to sit down and read and reply now.

I guess a few things to clarify - with closer 'friends' (ones I see more often, but still superficial level) I do of course remember their children's names. It's more meeting parents even for the 4th - 5th time where I will still forget their name or their children's names. I have however taken steps to try and remember this better.

Being late - it's usually to coffee or something casual like meeting with the children in the park where I may be 5-10 mins late and I'll always text. If more crucial timing is involved - say with an important reservation or start time I panic I will be late and am often there early. So I guess not always late with friends, but generally in my day to day life I am.

Conversation - I do remember some things, like perhaps they've been on holiday recently, (I often forget where), so I will usually ask them how their holiday was, etc mixed in with questions about their weekend etc. I guess I struggle to move past this point. I think I don't freely offer up information / details about myself or my life because I worry I'm over sharing and will be judged (as I always have been in my life), so it's hard to understand what's normal questions for being a friend and getting to know people and what's pushing the boundaries of being nosey. I just don't understand this, which is also why I've never disclosed my adhd. A feat of being judged. So I don't discuss my private life, marriage, health issues, etc for fear of what my friends will think of me. And because of what I don't ask those types of questions to them. I find it very awkward to judge what is acceptable to discuss and at what point in a friendship you would do that. I am also aware that I often show empathy / understanding to a friends situation by relating it to a situation.m I've been in. I didn't realise until recently that this was not considered normal and often pissed people off because they felt I was trying to overshadow them and make the conversation about me. A lot of ND people do this and it's just our way of showing people 'hey, I get you! I can relate'.

I do enjoy meeting up with friends and am usually the one suggesting to meet up for coffee or going out to lunch etc. I just don't invite them over. It's extremely rare for anyone to message me to ask how I'm doing or if I'd like to meet for coffee. Maybe I've burned those bridges already because I'm often late to reply to messages, although if they are to make plans to meet I do always reply relatively quickly because there's a deadline involved.

With the replying to messages I'm in a gazillion work and school groups where messages are constantly coming through so I often struggle to keep up and friends messages can sometimes get lost in there which then gives me anxiety to reply because I already know they must be wondering why I've not replied.

Phone reminders and things like that. As some posters have explained they don't often work for people with ADHD. I write a lot of lists. And 75% if the time I will forget the list exists. I do try and set reminders, it if I'm in the middle of doing something else I will be focusing on that and often forget the reminder has occurred. I am trying to find ways to improve on these things, but it's a struggle because I am very easily distracted, a chronic procrastinator until I eventually forget, and pretty much have zero routine. I cannot stick to one for the life of me no matter how hard I try.

In terms of positive qualities, I would consider myself a very kind and caring person, but unfortunately these traits are overshadowed by my adhd traits. I can look unappreciative because I forget to say thank you or follow up to a kind gesture sometimes. I feel awful and it gives me quite bad anxiety sometimes. I'm also very fun to be around and can be the life of the party if I feel comfortable enough with the friends I'm with. But sometimes I feel like I can scare them away because I can be very chatty and ramble on and not know when to stop.

I think part of my problem is a lack of understanding of how NT people work. Because for most of my life I thought I was 'normal' and most other people did the things I did as well. I didn't realise the things I did may offend people or put me in a bad light. I'm really trying to do better at understanding how NT people view things, and I guess I'm just trying to be more NT and learn how to better mask so I can be less offensive on the outside. Meanwhile I can have debilitating rejection sensitivity dysphoria and take people actions (or lack of) extremely personally where I analysis and over analyse resulting in a load of self hatred 😔

I'll be perfectly honest here: I loathe the term 'neuro typical' because it suggests most people think and behave in a certain way. The reality is that human nature, thought processes and behaviours are widely diverse!

I don't have any diagnosis (though of course the diagnosis just gives something a name; it doesn't change how someone is, so plenty of people must be walking around who would get a diagnosis if they went through the process.) FWIW I completely relate to what you say about knowing in a friendship when to disclose certain things... it's always a fine line between holding back and over sharing! So I suspect many people have the same worries.

A bit of practical advice: take yourself out of the endless school/ work/ group whatsapp - no way could I keep up with the endless threads. This will help you prioritise communication with the people who really matter.

You've recognised that if someone is telling you something sensitive or painful about their own situation, then it's not thoughtful to jump in with regaling them with an anecdote about yourself. Even if you feel it's a common point of understanding, it can come across as making it all about you.

And actually I think that final point is really the nub of it. When a person over analyses friendships and situations there's a risk it becomes self absorption. It's really hard but maybe try to 'let go' a bit, acknowledge that everyone around you is somewhere on that spectrum of human nature, who knows maybe they even have a diagnosis which they've chosen not to share, or even if they haven't, they'll be that complex mix of feelings which make us all human!

With the replying to messages I'm in a gazillion work and school groups where messages are constantly coming through so I often struggle to keep up and friends messages can sometimes get lost in there which then gives me anxiety to reply because I already know they must be wondering why I've not replied.

How necessary are all these groups? And why so many? I’d find that overwhelming and irritating to be honest, and I don’t have ADHD. Work should be muted unless you’re officially on duty - or just keep the essential one open (why more than one work group?). School group you can also mute during the day and just check in the morning or evening.

First: mum friends often distance themselves after a couple of years, as lives and priorities change, so it may not have much to do with you. I have certainly been ditched by a couple who just outgrew the playgroup scene and got into other stuff instead.

That said, I absolutely can’t stand it when people ignore texts for days / turn up late. It’s disrespectful and upsetting. I don’t know much about ADHD, but my memory is crap. Here are some things I do:

• I reply to texts instantly, even if just with an emojii or something like “good point, let me check”.
• If I need to do something important in future, I’ll set an alarm in my phone to eg remind me on Thurs ‘have you bought Paula a bday present?’ and I’ll keep rescheduling the alarm until I’ve done the action.
• I try to be helpful eg “I saw this handyman number in the shop window and thought you might like it as you mentioned wanting that blind put up.”
• As to kids names, I made a list (and keep it as a draft email to myself on my phone) when dd joined the school of each classmate child’s name, their parents’ names, and any important facts about them. Eg “Jane&John: Belle and Sophie. Dog called Jack who loves to dig garden. Live in Hampsted, want to renovate, enjoy golf.” I spent sometime trying to memorise it, and I glance at my list before meetups if I need to. That way when you’re speaking to them you can say “Hi John, how are Belle and Sophie getting on? Lovely Spring weather isn’t it, hope Jack isn’t digging up all your bulbs!”

People love it when you remember details and feel insulted when you don’t. But it’s hard to remember loads of random facts about acquaintances, so write it down. My aunt used to carry a book and make notes in it of stuff people had said that she wanted to remember. Find something that works for you.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/smarter-living/adults-guide-to-social-skills.amp.html

Lots of my good friends have ADHD. They are generally more interesting and fun to me than my friends who don't have it. (I have neurodivergent kids so I understand, and I'm generally pretty forgiving about lateness, non replies and flakiness... Also not a fan of small talk.)

Just make sure you make it very clear that you like your friends and want to spend time with them, be truthful and demonstrative. Be thoughtful and make an effort when you remember to. Open up to them.

I couldn’t be friends with you

maybe acquaintances

Ok your update casts a different light in things.

Firstly have a look at the groups and mute the ones that aren't vital. You have too much competing for your attention.

Secondly, do you need to have lots of friends? I have a close family and a few good friends and lots of friendly acquaintances. That's generally enough for me. I don't have headspace for more than that, and I don't have the energy to see them any more than I do at the moment.

But generally, taking your second update into account, I suspect I could be casual friends with you, maybe even more than that at some point. I don't think you have room in your life for many more close friends tbh.

You sound lovely OP but also hard work to have as a friend. For me personally, I just don’t have time anymore for flaky friends but maybe this is because I’ve had a lot that either don’t respond, don’t turn up, turn up half an hour late or whatever and my sympathy is now limited. I agree with posters that the main issues are not remembering details of peoples lives and the lateness.

If we were friends, or becoming friends, and you told me you had ADHD, I think that would strengthen our bond - I’d really respect it, and your honesty.

I think telling people is OK, but if I was your friend and you never reciprocated with a playdate or constantly didn't answer me, I wouldn't expect ADHD to be the excuse and would expect some effort.

I've got ADHD and I probably wouldn't have more than a passing acquaintanceship with someone who was consistently late, seemed disinterested in conversing and who didn't reply for days/weeks.

I have CPTSD and part of that is executive dysfunction. I completely get you. I always felt so different to other people, and like a child rather than a proper adult. I never knew why it was so hard for me and so easy for other people, why my house was messy and chaotic, why I lost everything, why I lost track of time and forgot about things partway, why I could never form a routine and instead of doing things daily everything would collapse until I ran around trying to put out fires. I also forget about texts and find it hard to concentrate on conversations.

People talking about lists and routines and reminders - yeah, they help to an extent, but there's no way to completely fix it. Your brain structure is completely different.

To answer your question, yes, I would be your friend, and I would be relieved to find someone else like me!

In honesty, regardless of anything else, I'd draw back simply due to the ongoing issue of you reading texts and not replying. Once, ok, maybe a 2nd time. But if this is a common theme I wouldn't keep putting myself forward

I feel you should be honest with friends, as you could otherwise come across as very self-absorbed.

Never being invited over would annoy me a bit. It's part and parcel of friendships, chatting over a cuppa on the sofa while the kids play.

Sorry, didn't mean for that to sound blunt

Thank you for this!

This is what I've been thinking as I've been scrolling along, but couldn't put it into words.

I've wrote hundreds of lists. In the moment it makes me feel super proud and productive, yet sticking to the list is more miss than hit. I use Google calendar now to add appointments, and its helped to an extent, but even then I can still forget to add important info/dates if I'm in the middle of something (because my thought process is "I'll do that in a minute") or if a reminder pops up and I'm in the middle of something, I'll dismiss it with the intention to follow up after, but it doesn't always happen.

People suggesting to just set reminders to solve the problem is like people telling overweight people to just eat less and move more. We know it would help, however the ability to execute it is not as straightforward. But I can understand it's hard for a person without ADHD to understand, just as it can be hard for a naturally slim person to understand overweight people.

To be honest I'd be wary.

It's all good and well saying of course I'd be your friend.

Some things I'd be worried about.

1. Is she making this all up? So she can be late all the time, forget stuff, and just be a bad friend. Will she take the piss but if I pull her up on anything be guilt tripped.

1. Are you a drama llama? Unfortunately I've found a lot of people who have usually self-diagnosed "ADHD" are hard work. As with anything self diagnosed. I'm not saying this is you, but people self diagnose a lot of thing to excuse their behaviours. Unfortunately it affects people perceptions of other who really have ADHD.