Feeling guilt at costing my parents £00000k

[Tead]

About 12 years my parents came into some money and were all set to buy a buy to let house until I talked them out of it. The are immigrants and so look to me to explain things - I know that sounds odd.
i thought it would be too much of a hassle for them as they were in their early 60s but I knew nothing of property.
they changed their minds and just left the money in the bank.
the house sold 3 months ago and I am racked with guilt over what I did. They would have made hundreds thousands on their purchase. It’s been 3 months and I keep waking up at night thinking about my stupidity. I haven’t told anyone about this not even my wife. I have felt close to tears many times. I know I cannot make it us to them. This just makes me feel like an even bigger loser. I haven’t spoken to them about this. I feel ashamed of myself just looking at them. They are financially ok but I feel like I’ve failed them

If they're financially comfortable and quite elderly without the stress of being landlords, is this more regret about your inheritance?

If not then they didn't need to listen to you, and could/ should have spoken to an independent advisor about their investments.

You were being unreasonable to push then into a decision without full understanding of the market etc, but they're not left destitute. It's not the end of the world. Just try not to be so free with the unsolicited, unresearched advice in future.

You did make the wrong decision for them but at the end of the day, you gave the advice you thought was right and didn't do anything malicious or nasty. Sometimes in life we have to accept that we make wrong decisions, this becomes apparent with hindsight. All you can do is move on and don't be too hard on yourself. They are comfortable financially so in a way, they don't need the extra money (and you were right, it would have come with a lot of hassle). You will inherit a little less, (and any siblings) that is the main outcome. They are fine and they are right not to blame you.

Of course you should feel guilty, you gave bad advice, but its not as if you said invest in ABC ltd and it panned and now they have nothing.

Investing in property is always , always , always a good idea LONG TERM. So if they intended to keep it for st least 10+ years or so, then it was silly telling them not to do it. People get burnt when they can't leave the money for years so it flattens out the dips and rises and carry on upwards like property has for the past 60 years in a finite island with a ever rising population.

As they age and may need nursing care, nursing home etc, I suggest they consult an independent financial advisor , ageing people shouldn't be leaving money in the bank, not yet anyway, if we get double digit intrest rates, then hell yeah, but not now even!!

Focus on the money is still there and if you want to make amends READ, there's lot of excellent investment advice out there, a good study on Martin Lewis website will equip you with great advice even, so you're better informed for your own financial health. If you're parents aren't financially savvy, chances are you're not either and that something that needs fixing (as both of you demonstrate).

Sorry to be harsh, but I'd be less concerned about guilt, and more about learning from my mistake.

@Tead, do check to see if the house was refurbished by the people who did buy it. They may have poured a lot of money into it.

Also, if your parents had bought it, it would have taken a huge amount of managing and admin. You may have ended up doing a lot of that for them, so factor in how much it would have cost you/them at consultancy rates.

You can't change the past so I wouldn't worry now. There is no point giving it headspace.

Life is full of regrets, what ifs...

If it makes you feel a bit better, I once turned down the opportunity to buy a flat in a certain part of London in the early 90s for about £35k because the area was a dangerous shithole. Guess which area is now chic and trendy and I don't even want to know how much the same flat would be worth.

Your parents are ok, they have enough money and a house.

And you have saved them a decade of hassle, shit tenants and constant repairs.

I don't understand. You've been following the sale prices of a house they didn't buy for twelve years? It didn't sell at all in that time until now?
In the intervening period some people made a lot of money in property but some lost money too. Looking at headline figures doesn't really make sense because it might not have sold for that much if it had been run as a buy to let by your parents for 12 years. Also you have no idea of how much was invested in it over that period or how difficult tenants would have been, etc.
The only lesson to take from this, if there is one, is if you don't feel confident about a subject then you don't need to have an opinion on it. But, if it's any comfort, if they had sought advice from a professional financial advisor, they would probably have advised them not to buy the property since they tend to steer people away from seeing properties as investment purchases because markets can be volatile.

Odd you advised them what not to do

but then allowed the money to fester they changed their minds and just left the money in the bank.

rather than encouraging them to go to a FA

But you were right, buy to lets can be a huge amount of hassle. People can trash them, they can not pay the rent or not be able to afford to pay the rent and refuse to leave and then you have to go to court to get them to leave which can be a stressful and drawn out process no doubt.....and if your parents are immigrants and don't really know the ins and outs and have English as a second language it could have been a complete nightmare.

Also no one can predict what will happen with the housing market and as a second home when it was sold there would be capital gains to pay. Stop following this house and concentrate on your life. You were not a financial expert, your parents didn't have to look to you for advice - that was their choice, they could have paid for advice.

I've thought of buying a similar property in the past and been talked out of it by my parents for the same reasons. I wouldn't blame them for that though! I'm an adult and can make my own decisions and there are always risks involved.

Leaving the money sitting in the bank was a terrible decision. Why on earth did you offer advice if you knew nothing about property? Even if you thought being BTL landlords may not suit them, there are many other ways to invest their money and several would have provided returns far larger than property over the past 12 years.

I don't think you advised them incorrectly at all. Being a LL is extremely stressful and another end of the day a bit of a gamble - you never know what tenants are going to be like whatever safeguards you put in place, and eviction can take many months, Court appearances and a hell of a lot of money.

The stress can be absolutely terrible. I think you advised them correctly in their circumstances.

OK, so they didn't have a theoretical three hundred thousand sat in the bank this morning. However, they also didn't have a huge debt, sleepless nights, huge repair and renovation costs, a capital gains tax bill or a need to get you involved regularly with all the things required to be a legal and safe owner.

What they did have this morning, though, was over a decade of knowing they had a comfortable cushion of money safely in the bank where nobody could take it away from them. Twelve years of peace of mind. And their own property as well.

That level of security is a rare thing for tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people here and millions elsewhere. Don't knock the value of having peace of mind.

I think you need to think about this differently. Leaving money in the bank is never the right call (save for short term cash needs). So that’s one thing. But property is not the only investment . British people are obsessed with it, but they simply don’t understand the problems it can bring (lack of diversification for one). Any financial advisor would’ve told them to look at suitable equity/bond funds. So I wouldn’t obsess too much about a hypothetical property they might have bought, but would advise them (even at this stage) to take some advice.

YWBU to butt into their business and talk them out of it when you don't know anything about property. Property is a pretty solid investment whereas just leaving money in the bank is wasteful because the money actually loses value over time unless you invest it.

So yeah, you gave very bad advice and it cost them money. But what's done is done. They didn't have to listen to you, they're still adults. And they could have got shit Tennants that ransacked it, cost them insane money trying to evict and then fix it up. Bad tennants really ruin lives, they're clearly pretty naive since they listened to you in the first place so would be more likely to have issues.

I thought it would have been too much of a hassle for them as they were in their early sixties

Replace early sixties with "gay", "black", "women", "catholics" and it's really horribly discriminatory.

Most people I know in their early 60s are working in professional jobs, living a very active life with interests or non exec roles, etc. Most of them are also advising their 20 something children about finances and careers because they know a great deal more than them by virtue of having more lived experience.

I doubt your parents took as much notice of you as you think and I don't suppose are particularly bothered or have personally suffered much financially by not taking the decision to buy a btl. It must be very disappointing to think about the impact it may have on your future inheritance and potentially future lifestyle though.

If your parents had funds to buy a buy to let in their early 60s I doubt they were the dopes you thought they were.

Your parents should speak to a financial advisor

Do they have a private pension ?

Do they have ISAs ?

They could invest in stocks & shares

They could invest in art, antiques, gold, collectibles, holiday home, other items

Look on Money Saving Expert website

Look on Pension Bee website

There are plenty of options & help available

I doubt your parents took as much notice of you as you think

Given they then left it al festering in a bank account for 12 years - the parents don’t sound like the sharpest tool in the box when it comes to financial matters

Don't assume the amount the value has increased would have been profit.
They would have paid for annual repairs, renovations, upkeep. They would have had a lot of work. It's not unearned income. Liasing with agents and tenants and cleaning companies etc, paying tax on the rent money, being called at odd hours to sort leaks and faulty boilers etc etc.

Maybe you bought them a hassle free peasce of mind in retirement.

Entirely unreasonable for thinking things are ‘too much hassle’ in early sixties when many world leaders are a similar age or older, when many consultants are that age, when many actors are that age, when people run international companies at that age.
It is not, as one person suggested ‘quite elderly’. It’s not even retirement age for the majority.

You need a mindset change and to stop infantilising perfectly competent adults. As you say, your lack of ability and understanding has cost them thousands. You should back out of trying to run their lives for them.

RosesAndHellebores · Today 08:48
I thought it would have been too much of a hassle for them as they were in their early sixties

Replace early sixties with "gay", "black", "women", "catholics" and it's really horribly discriminatory.

but being gay/black/female/Catholic - would never ever ever match ability to manage a tenanted property

whereas I think we can all agree that age could quite possibly impact ability to, and whilst most in early 60s would not find their age an impediment in the slightest, some would, and I suppose the Op knows her own parents

I do believe in the butterfly effect - a small change may lead to huge impact.

Maybe if you parents bought the house, they would have rented it to someone bad. Maybe your intuition was right? You will never know.

Don't listen to hindsight - you made the best choices you could with the information you had. Going forward try to seek independent advice with them to lessen the burden you are carrying.

It's time to move on.

Please don't feel so bad about the advice you gave your parents. We bought three flats in around 2006/07 as a pension for my self employed husband. They were the worse decision we have ever mad. Dreadful tenants even after referencing them, dreadful management companies ripping us off with high service charges etc. The financial crash then hit and we lost thousands of pounds in negative equity. You've done your parents a favour, the stress was unbelievable at times, being a landlord is always what it's cracked up to be.

This.

honestly though I don’t think the level of investment and upset in this is normal. Why are you still even checking prices on a house your parents didn’t even buy 12 years ago? At the end of the day they still must have a tidy sum in the bank, nothing to feel bad about

@Razzle5 neither does a person being in their early 60s match ability to manage a tenanted property. DH and I manage it quite well thank you: both at home and holiday lets abroad. Even though the language there is our second language.

The UK retirement age will shortly be 68. The ageism popping up on MNet is shocking. People don't become suddenly incapacitated when they hit 60.

The vast majority of those in their early sixties would rightfully be horrified at thought they couldn’t manage a BTL due to their age

but my aunt is in her early 60s. And very “old”

You don't know what you don't know. You advised based on the information you had at the time, it could well have been a disaster you'll never know. We'd all make different decisions with hindsight. Like I'd have let my husband buy that bitcoin for £100 years ago if I'd known what it's worth was going to be worth now, we don't discuss it 🤷😂 xx