The state pension is HOW MUCH???

[BeatieBourke]

Call me stupid (fair) but I've just realised how much the state pension is. £800 odd a month (£185.15pw).

As a non-means tested benefit. For EVERYONE.

I'm generally of the opinion that benefits are too low and too punitive. I usually advocate for universalism. I understand that people have worked their whole lives and paid in, and deserve a retirement. And that having pensioners in poverty does no favours to the economy or other welfare services.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE?? So a widower in rented accommodation with no other income or savings, £800pm. A wealthy 68 year old who's earned a 6 figure salary, has a huge property portfolio and investments coming out of their ears that pay a fortune out in dividends, £800pm. Seriously?

I understand that no party, least of all the Tories (because tory voters as a population are older) will ever go after pensions because it would be unpopular (and older people vote more generally). But in a time when the country is supposedly facing a financial "black hole" and everything else has already been cut to the bone for the last 12 years, why the hell are we paying out state benefits to millionaires?

Maybe if pensions were means tested (with a fairly high and tapering threshold) there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65, and more for people who haven't built up huge assets, can't afford to live, heat their homes or eat a hot meal every day in their later years. I can see the (cynical) political sense in it, but no economic sense whatsoever.

AIBU?

It's a bit of an unusual one to the UK.

Yep it's like a universal basic income for all the people with the skills, experience and connections to no longer need it while the rest of us starve trying to prop them up.

A single mum with one child won't receive as much.

Do I get to stop paying national insurance if you take it away?

You do realise that is extremely low and most of western Europe has much higher pensions.

Who has more?

Widower in rented will be entitled to pension credits etc.
A person with private pension and other incomes will still pay tax in retirement.
You have to have paid enough NI to get full state pension

You pay for a pension all the years you work though paying national insurance. Everyone should get it. Pensions credit which is the means tested benefit should be higher.

Almost every 1st world country...

But people have paid into that pension for over 30 years. There would be riots if they took it away now.

If they did it would have to be a very high threshold.

Maybe if pensions were means tested there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65

You lost me at this.
Why should the pension age for women be 65 when it is soon to be 68 for men, particularly given women live longer than men?

Possibly an unpopular opinion given the demographic in mumsnet but there is zero need for early pension access for women.

In order to get a full state pension you have to have paid a minimum of full years NI. I've paid for 42 years because I've worked full time for forty two years. I also have four part paid years from when I was working whilst at university. Why should I do without my state pension when I retire? I will also have two private pensions. Along with others in my position I'll pay tax on my pension. What is wrong with that?

Nope

I see your point, but the counter argument is that by the time of qualifying for a state pension every older adult who is eligible ( there is criteria to pay enough years of NI ) will have paid in for years and years. Therefore although it would be logical to means test it isn't actually fair .

Universal benefits were a pillar of the welfare state when it was created.
It isn't enough to live on by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a way of supporting every citizen that has worked ( an increasing proportion ) of their adult lives.

Means testing state pensions would be massively expensive and labour intensive, so it is cheaper not to.

You pay into it all your working life. Everyone gets it. If you were in a private scheme you could opt out of part of it paying less, as you would be paying into a private scheme, and would receive a smaller state pension.

OH doesn't get full state pension as he has a private pension.

fullfact.org/europe/pensioners-eu-uk/

www.profilepensions.co.uk/blogs/state-pension-comparison-pt1

www.fool.co.uk/2021/03/19/how-does-the-uk-state-pension-compare-with-europe/

In Ireland it is about £220 per week but all other social welfare payments are considerably higher than in the U.K.
For example an single parent with 2 small children would get about £260 basic.

OK, good informative responses.

It is lower than European cousins, true.
Pension credits is a comicating factor and, although I know a fair bit about the welfare benefits system, I know naff all about pension credits. Will aim to rectify this.

I suppose I have no issue with a decent universal pension in principal (in fact my personal politics would make me all for it). But in the context of literally every other benefit being squeezed to within an inch of its life and means tested to the point of cruelty (see disability benefits for the terminally ill etc), it rather goes against the grain.

Im a single parent with one child and my pension is forecast as normal rate?

Erm the millionaire is the one that has paid into the system. I agree that pensions cost to much but private pensions should be mandatory with no state

The vast majority of people will rely on the state pension even if they have been high earners. You need a ridiculous pot to retire on a decent income nowadays.

Ireland, Netherlands, Denmark have similar systems with considerably higher amounts paid out.

Pension Credit is the means tested part.

If you do away with state pension will you reduce NI? Transfer accumulated NI credits into private pensions?

Not to mention the fact that the whole principle of the welfare state is that everyone should benefit from it. If you start down this route will you also restrict the NHS for those who could afford BUPA? If you do that then the higher earners who actually fund it start to get disillusioned by it.

I was actually surprised that it doesn't matter what you paid in as long as you paid, you get the same money.
Where I am from it's a base, then years and how much (to a limit!) were your wages hence how much you paid in. So everyone has basically different pension.