The state pension is HOW MUCH???

[BeatieBourke]

Call me stupid (fair) but I've just realised how much the state pension is. £800 odd a month (£185.15pw).

As a non-means tested benefit. For EVERYONE.

I'm generally of the opinion that benefits are too low and too punitive. I usually advocate for universalism. I understand that people have worked their whole lives and paid in, and deserve a retirement. And that having pensioners in poverty does no favours to the economy or other welfare services.

But £800 a month / £9k a year for EVERYONE?? So a widower in rented accommodation with no other income or savings, £800pm. A wealthy 68 year old who's earned a 6 figure salary, has a huge property portfolio and investments coming out of their ears that pay a fortune out in dividends, £800pm. Seriously?

I understand that no party, least of all the Tories (because tory voters as a population are older) will ever go after pensions because it would be unpopular (and older people vote more generally). But in a time when the country is supposedly facing a financial "black hole" and everything else has already been cut to the bone for the last 12 years, why the hell are we paying out state benefits to millionaires?

Maybe if pensions were means tested (with a fairly high and tapering threshold) there'd be enough to pay pensions for women at 65, and more for people who haven't built up huge assets, can't afford to live, heat their homes or eat a hot meal every day in their later years. I can see the (cynical) political sense in it, but no economic sense whatsoever.

AIBU?

If your dh died your state pension is re-assessed based on his NI contributions. If it leaves you with less than the minimum income the government says you need to live on then you will get topped up with pension credit.

This. Over and over again 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I thought this was going to be about how little it is.

I can't believe that you think £800 is too much!!!

I live in one of the many European countries where pensions are higher. They do vary depending on past income, but average might be around €1500 which everyone believes is too low. It's lead to an obsession with home ownership comparable to the Uk because people know it's not enough to live on properly unless you own your home outright.

People have spent their lives paying into it. Why shouldn't they get it.

Then why charge someone with a private pension NI contributions which pay for their government pension?

It's all pretty irrelevant anyway.

The NI you pay this week is paid out on Monday next week to the current recipients. 🤷‍♀️

It is not put in your own special pot, then paid out when you reach a moveable pre-defined age...unlike a private one.

Untrue. Those above state pension age do not pay ni

Means testing doesn't save any money.

It exponentially increases the amount of money spent on admin just to stop people rightfully claiming a benefit they are entitled to.

the state pension IS means tested, in that the more you earn, the more you pay into national insurance and it’s that money that provides the funds for people who haven’t been earning enough to pay in.

Which is why when the welfare state was set up the retirement ages were set up deliberately by calculating that a large number of people would never actually collect the pension they had paid for all their working lives. And why of course successive governments are raising pensionable age to allow for longer life expectancy hoping enough retirees have the good grace to die so that the money they are due can be scooped back into the pot - although the idea of a pot is a bit of a diversion, pension “promise” would be more accurate. And as we all know, promises are like pie crust, made to be broken.

Ni is a tax. It doesn’t pay for pensions.

Well said.

It's always seen as more expensive to administer a tapered pension credit. However I can't see why. Except I'm not sure about who does tax returns - everyone? If not everyone and it's up to employers and people change jobs and everything is a year or two behind.

Apart from the fact HMRC are up to cock, their IT systems are a shambles and you couldn't get through to them on the phone.

However it shouldn't be beyond a decent IT system to work it out and say those over pension age 67 earning £50000 shouldn't get the £450 fuel bonus etc.

But tax is a funny thing especially when split between husband and wife. I think there's a case of child care allowances where if the husband and wife earn over the £50000 mark between them they get benefits but a single parent earning the same wouldn't.

Don’t be ridiculous. Means testing of pensions would save tens of billions a year

I think we’ve gone far to far away from universality in general, which is what makes people think this is unfair.

You can only claim it if you've paid in. If you've made the payments you should be entitled to the payouts regardless of whether you're a millionaire or not. Also £800 a month is a really shit state pension 😔

How do you think pensions are funded, if not from tax?

I have both as I paid into both !!

People who have never done a days work just get pension credit instead if they have nothing to live on, they aren't just left with nothing. I had a client recently in my job who has lived abroad most of his life and been back in the UK a few years ago. he has just turned state pension age and had no NI contributions. he has just been awarded Pension credit of £182 a week and all his rent ( lives in multiple occupancy house so not a lot ) and council tax paid. It is not bad when you have no rent or council tax to pay and have barely worked here bar a few years in your twenties !!

Is this the new Tory policy development team testing out ideas?

I can assure you, I'll need it.

No assets, no savings, and a measly mandated private pension I can barely afford to pay now.

My point is that by the time people my age retire (I'm 40s) the pension age will be 99 and there'll be no money to pay it, because we've propped up millionaires in their 60s for decades.

I'm all for most pensioners getting a state pension. I'd like the poorest to get more.

Everyone who is eligible gets it, and that’s as it should be. I’d be mightily pissed off if I paid in all those years, to find out that I didn’t qualify as I was earning a few pence more prior to retirement than Betty next door. It’s not a benefit, it’s a right. There’s a lot more money wasted on welfare benefits which needs to be looked at. Leave our state pensions alone!

If people have paid the contributions, they are entitled to the state pension. It is what they have been signed up for and have been promised. Simple, no discussion required.

Thanks you Babyroobs. I didn’t know that about it being reassessed on my DH contributions. 🙂 also that I could get pension credit

Totally agree !

Not everyone gets the full pension. It is based on your NI contributions.
Also means testing does not always work in the way you want it to. It's hard to know where to set the cut off levels. And it can cost much more to deliver than it will save