Rough' tax rises on the way

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What does this even mean? I can't take much more. Not with the rising energy prices and the absolute mess up of the mortgage interest rates rising.

How will people survive? Already we have not had pay rises and now we will all probably be taxed more.

I feel at the end of my tether. It's really affecting my mental health.

You do realise that a lot of social care needs are for people with long term serious disabilities? People may need outside help to provide medical therapy?

@cosmiccosmos quite right, what we often really mean by this is “unpaid and largely involuntary labour by women”

I pointed this out in another thread.

In this country in the past, when there were larger families, a daughter would often stay home to care for the parents. That's what happened to one of my Aunts. In some other cultures, it's the daughter-in-law who provides care.

Spot on. We’ve spent money like a drunken sailor on shore leave. Now the bills are coming in.

Bills to who? Who do we owe money to? Especially since 2010 when real tangible cuts have been made to public services?

Cuts made and yet the debt still grew before covid?

What happened and how did we end up owing and to whom?

Really? where has that money gone that we spent? into better and better public services etc or into the pockets of the super wealthy, who have seen their riches sky rocket?

Its BS of course, as we ve gone further to the 'right, so the ordinary punter has got poorer.

All made far far worse by Ukraine but yet again, fortunes are being made, off the backs of ordinary people who are paying for all of this inflation but the fortunes gained wont be taxed, as i ve been told before, the rich avoid tax.

👏👏👏

The top 10% of earners pay over 60% of all income tax, with the top 1% (aka the rich) paying 28% of that. Who are these rich people who are apparently avoiding paying tax?

They don’t pay tax. So why would they show up on these stats?

Plus that’s income tax - ie from PAYE. People in that 10% include people earning over £61,000.

We know from HMRC stats that tax avoidance is a huge problem. It’ll be people with interesting tax schemes or who claim to be overseas resident.

Sorry the top 10% earn over £62k not £61k.

If salaries were higher then the tax take would be higher across the board. Instead we have companies paying shit wages subsidised by universal credit.

So you mean overseas residents who pay tax in their country of residence? The only interesting tax schemes are used by the likes of Starbucks, so still not “rich people” not paying tax. Anyone living in the UK full time, and earning money in the UK pays tax, even “rich people”. A lot of tax avoidance is from individuals working cash in hand. That’s not top CEO’s of companies who earn hundreds of thousands of pounds (who a lot on here seem to hate), they’re all PAYE and paying hundreds of thousands of pounds in tax too.

That's a very bleak view but I tend to agree with most of it, sadly.

We know from HMRC stats that tax avoidance is a huge problem

Are you sure you mean avoidance rather than evasion, Believeitornot? - after all the first is perfectly legal and the second not

Given the way it's wasted only a fool would pay more tax than they have to, and if folk want to support whatever cause we can do it privately
FWIW I do agree that some sail very close to the wind between what's allowed and what isn't, but the answer to that is to close loopholes rather than blame those who utilise legitimate ones

So what? they will have to pay more, e.g dividends, CGT, IHT avoidance - all will have to change.

TBH these figures actually show how little real earnings have increased, rather than the wealthy pay too much.

In 2015, UK had approx 720k millionaires, today we have 2.4m millionaires.
During the pandemic, the UK gained an additional 24 billionaires (they didn't move here)

So whatever you think of the Tax system, it's not holding back the rich from getting richer.

We simply cannot tax people who have little i.e lower middle earners when they are also struggling.

On cash in hand with sole traders - yes its problematic but that money will be spent in local shops/pubs etc not put in investment funds, many of which have very large overseas holdings.

Someon asked about the debt. We took on massive debt due to paying furlough money etc. Many countries did and in the UK 91% hhave had at least one vaccine. I am in a very rare category in that since March 2020 I was against the state spending all that money so am particularly unhapyp I will be paying it back for 20 years through extra tax but it is no surprise - we knew from early 2020 that if we went down this magic money tree route then there would be debts for a generation. We made the wrong choice.

We spent £70 billion on furlough as a country, and Truss and Kwartang spent £60 billion overnight on ???

We apparently had a surplus before that budget. It's not furlough we are paying for, it's tory hubris.

DH and i are high earners. We're assuming we'll take the bit big time, we can live with that. Needs must.

This is what you get for voting Tory. I hope the idiots that do are happy.

When will people ever see them for what they are....morally bankrupt, inept, self serving c*nts.

Truss should face charges.

@Grumpybutfunny
''I'm very much from the Asian view point that social care comes down to families''

You mean a view point where women are expected to spend their life caring for others, whether they really want it or not, or face stigma and family rejection?

We have an ageing society, people living longer with complex needs that often require 24 hour care.

It is rather unrealistic to think that this can be dealt by a few frazzled middle aged women who are already dealing with caring for kids and having to work to keep a roof over their heads and who are suddenly supposed to become 24 hour nurses and carers with little say in the matter.

We need to fund social care properly and stop peddling this nonsense about ''families'' which is really about women having to give up their ow lives for the benefit of everyone else.

Only Truss? She was the inevitable consequence of voting for Brexit in 2016 or even Cameron before it. She was also the only one to ever be honest about her intentions.

The original sin was Cameron turning his parties internal fight into the Referendum. He sowed the seeds for resentment against the EU by bringing in a ruinous austerity plan then blaming the EU for the consequences. The average reading age in this country is 7 so of course the Daily Mail and Sun headlines cut through and Leave won.

He ran away. The pound started to slide and the debts started to mount.

We then got May, who was useless and poorly advised. She then announced her ridiculous red lines and backed herself into a corner triggering Article 50 without having a plan for now it would work.

She lost complete control and was booted out after losing her majority. The pound continued to slide and the debts continued to mount. Productivity stalled.

We then got Johnson, a complete bumbling, lazy tit who presided over corruption in an epic scale. This included Rishi writing off about £40bn in fraud during Covid and helping accelerate the spread of covid through his duly Hell out to Eat Out scheme.

Boris was chased out.The pound continued to slide and the debts continued to mount. Inflation start to climb and productivity went backwards.

Truss came in for 5 minutes and did what she said she would do to kick start creativity. It flopped as the markets were spooked.

She was chased out. The pound crashed and the debt climbed.

We now have Rishi and apparently he’s going to make it all better. However, having looked today, the pound slightly fell this week, inflation and debt is still climbing and productivity has moved nowhere.

Listened to BOE Gov Andrew Bailey yesterday, he said we were hours away from financial collapse due to the mini budget and the damage, though halted and in ways reversed, is permanent.

Truss and Kwarteng did this, deliberately - i think they should both face criminal charges, as should anyone else who assisted them.

Iceland jailed people after the global financial crash.

Can't really charge people for Brexit, we voted for it and in the main, still support it, or at least our political parties currently do.

The problem with the UK especially socially is the ideal of independence and chasing careers, materialism has fragmented the close family and the wider family. Now we're scrabbling around for the basics, childcare, housing, and care for the sick and elderly. I too come from a culture where the family unit all live near and take care of one another. My siblings and I shared a bed, and rooms, we weren't given to strangers to bring us up, nor did we have our own private bedrooms. How many parents push for babies, and children to be left in their own rooms? It's madness.
In the UK we expect this family unit to include organizations and strangers, we also expect others to pay for these facilities. We've outsourced basic human necessities and actions.
To be quite frank the economy cannot generate enough money or value to pay for these basic needs. It's NOT sustainable nor is it affordable. There are so many people for whom the family unit is either non-existent or very, very fragmented.
Independence, and individualism from one another have come at a huge cost.

Funnily enough many women in these type of cultures are beginning to refuse to have kids as they realise they will have no life.

If you want to spend your life wiping your kids and parents arses cooped up in one house then crack on. I’m sure your DDs and DILs will also look forward to spending their adult lives wiping your grandkids and your arse.

All of these wonderful cultures where it’s about family just involve the woman sacrificing themselves. Fuck that, I’d rather live in a materialistic UK and am bringing up my DD with a western individualistic culture.

All of these wonderful cultures where it’s about family just involve the woman sacrificing themselves.*

Yup. It's very rarely the men doing it. It's just women, giving up their lives for someone else.

It's no coincidence that multi generational living tends to reduce when girls get the same education and chances as boys.

I think there is a lot to be said for multi-gen living (I moved my mum in with me a few years back) but it needs to come about as a result of everyone making a choice and everyone mucking in.

Was ever thus.

Human nature is based on greed and self interest, kids have been farmed out in poorer areas since time began or in my childhood, we just let out, with the oldest child looking after the youngest.

Most parents have always worked in poor families/areas.

Maybe look at why other countries manage with so much cheaper childcare?

UK has the least availability and most expensive in Europe.

People live longer (maybe 10 or 15 years more) & caring for elderly parents with dementia and incontinence is terrible.

My Gran did it for her mum and it almost killed my Gran - people who espouse this course of action, haven't a clue.