MN HQ Really needs to do something about disablist threads on here!

[PipinwasAuntieMabelsdog]

As a disabled person, this site makes me despair at times!

Yes, I've been trying to recall a saying I wanted to use but couldn't remember, I just remembered it: walking on eggshells. I was very reticent to comment on this thread, even though I myself have ASD and other disabilities (my ASD affects me mostly). That was what I meant to say in my first post, I think this site is very report-happy/ban-happy, and seeing even well-meaning and important discussions shut down about disabilities is frustrating because any conversation on this topic, which is over-moderated on, on here, is like walking on eggshells. When even people with disabilities are too scared to comment on here because we are immediately silenced/reported/deleted by someone far too sensitive, it's scary. I mainly post on my online support group, rather than here, because even for me, posting on here is like walking of bloody eggshells. A sensible discussion can't be had because of the No Debate 'you're all ableist' crowd.

There has to be a balance. There has to be common sense. Not everything is ableist. Most of the examples given, are not remotely ableist, in my eyes. Some are important to discussions to be had, others show ignorance of disability/blue badge laws. But not actually deliberately ableist. I still say, from my experience, that it is extremely rare to find any ableist threads on this site, and rare to find ableist, actually ableist, comments. People seem to have an inability to understand ableism and what it is, and what it is not. Although, granted, not all people with disabilities are a homogenous group. So what one sees as ableist, another doesn't see it remotely ableist.

It is a shame though that even people with disabilities like myself, feel like we are walking on eggshells with some of the uber PC No Debate crowd on here to the extent, so much so I'm afraid to even come on here and discuss things or my experiences. Maybe it's gone too far the other way OP? Maybe the OP can take into mind that what she thinks is ableist is not actually ableist, and people with disabilities are not a homogenous group, so don't assume OP you speak for everyone. Hopefully this thread has given the OP food for thought. It's great that they speak against ableism, but most of the experiences I've seen put forward are not ableist, some not even remotely, and it demeans our lived experiences if the word ableist is made so meaningless. Then no one will take actual ableism seriously.

Sorry for my long post, I do like to talk a lot (I don't in person to person in real life, lol).

Ablelism can arise from ignorance.

I am both autistic and hearing impaired. I wear special noise cancelling headphones in public. They cut out background hums and so on, but allow human speech through. They're incredibly expensive, and incredibly nifty. They allow me to hear people better, and reduce sensory overload in loud environments

Sometimes people tell me I'd be able to hear them better if I took them off. They're often very rude about it. One or two have even shouted at me about my rudeness in wearing them. I try to explain that they don't affect my ability to lipread, and that I will in fact hear worse with them off. Sometimes they apologise, sometimes they just go off on a rant about all the other people wearing headphones who play music through them. One lady shouted at me just because I walked past her on the street wearing them.

I don't believe that any single one of them saw me coming and decided to be an ableist dickhead, but the overall effect of having to justify my assistive technology is very much ablelism. And makes me anxious in shops, new environments etc.

The unfair deletion of @Mariposista 's post proves my point (I'm sorry @Mariposista , your post did not deserve to be removed and would never have been removed in any of the support groups I am on) It's walking on eggshells here, even fair comment is not allowed. Way to prove our points.

I'm very sorry for your experiences, @Chouetted . It is hard enough to have these disabilities, without being shouted at and abused.

Thank you. Going back to the other point though, my default thought when this happens is no longer "oh, they're trying to make a helpful suggestion, they're just uninformed" but "oh no, another amateur audiologist who thinks they know better than me about what helps". Unfortunately I don't have an infinite supply of patience, and mine ran dry some time ago. There is no option to log off and have cake in real life.

Although, I do like a good piece of cake

I had a manager in my last job insist I couldn't wear noise cancelling headphones in the office.

My music helps me focus (ADHD) and my job didn't require me to interact with anyone else in the office or answer a phone.

This gets said a lot and it just isn't true. It's a particular set of behaviours that lead people to ask if they could have asd, it isn't arsehole behaviour. It's far more nuanced than that and usually said by posters that have many asd family members and recognise these behaviours which are usually coping mechanisms not arsehole behaviour at all.

I have seen posters with asd write off some of my (diagnosed) asd husbands behaviours as 'arsehole behaviour' when I know and he knows it really isn't. I don't know when some posters defence of themselves at the expense of (usually) males with asd actually slips into abeilism? It feels pretty shitty to see your husband and sons autistic behaviour being described as 'arsehole behaviour' by ASD posters themselves just because it doesn't fit into their rules of how their autism presents.

Obviously whoever reported it didn't agree with you and neither did MNHQ, who make the decision about whether deletion is justified. I found that post objectionable and challenged it, though I didn't report it.

That's ridiculous. Out of pure morbid curiosity - did he provide a reason? I'm curious as to what his thought process was there...

Thanks, honestly don’t worry. What a shame society has become so prickly and easily offended. As you say - proves the point perfectly.
I know and am friends with people with disabilities and they are more than capable of working out when they are genuinely being discriminated against and when they are not.

disablist
/dɪsˈeɪblɪst/
adjective
adjective: disablist
discriminating or prejudiced against people who are disabled.
"we are in danger of becoming a disablist society"

ableism
/ˈeɪblɪz(ə)m/

noun
noun: ableism; noun: ablism
discrimination in favour of able-bodied people.
"we were fed up with the ableism of the women's movement"

An “ableist” belief system often underlies negative attitudes, stereotypes and stigma toward people with psychosocial disabilities. “ Ableism” refers to attitudes in society that devalue and limit the potential of persons with disabilities.

@Chouetted it was rude he said.

Disablist / Ableism / Ablelist

disablist
/dɪsˈeɪblɪst/
adjective
adjective: disablist
discriminating or prejudiced against people who are disabled.
"we are in danger of becoming a disablist society"

ableism
/ˈeɪblɪz(ə)m/

noun
noun: ableism; noun: ablism
discrimination in favour of able-bodied people.
"we were fed up with the ableism of the women's movement"

An “ableist” belief system often underlies negative attitudes, stereotypes and stigma toward people with psychosocial disabilities. “ Ableism” refers to attitudes in society that devalue and limit the potential of persons with disabilities.

It was removed at the request of the OP and a number of disabled people including myself, because MNHQ made absolutely no attempt to respond to the very genuine concerns of people or to engage people with disabilities to hear their comments, but allowed vile and nasty attacks on the disabled people posting to stand. It was causing more distress than it was addressing and that is why it went. MNHQ have proven to me that they do not care.

Thanks for explaining. What a silly reason.

I would have reported him to HR, if you had it, or consulted your local MP. If it happens again in the future you should. You have a protected characteristic, and surely he broke some law.

He was HR. The CEO wasn't interested.

I now wfh and can play music to my hearts content.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/discrimination-at-work/discrimination-at-work/taking-action/asking-your-employer-for-changes-to-help-if-youre-disabled/

www.acas.org.uk/reasonable-adjustments/when-an-employer-must-consider-making-reasonable-adjustments

www.tuc.org.uk/join-a-union

www.lawcentres.org.uk/about-law-centres

and from a quick Google search...

disabilityunion.co.uk

I don't think PP meant "if you got better and no longer needed a blue badge", I think they meant "if by some admin error you were left without the badge whilst still needing the space".
For example, I've been a wheelchair user for almost a year now, but still waiting for my blue badge to arrive. That's because I had to apply for PIP, having waited enough months to prove it's "permanent", and only once that had been processed after several more months could I successfully ask for a blue badge from the council. In the meantime, I've been using P&C and Blue Badge spaces when I need them to unload and get into the wheelchair safely - in some carparks it's not necessary but in others it very much is. And I might be more likely to choose P&C spaces, because I can't get ticketed there. That's not making other disabled people's lives harder for the sake of it, but it is parking in spaces I'm technically "not allowed" to use.

I've never quite understood the point of these questions. In most cases the answer is going to be some variation of "well I don't do it then".

"I'm sorry the subtitles are so bad, but they're the best we can do - what would you do if they weren't there?"

"Well, frankly, I'd be somewhere else, significantly less confused, and not wasting my time watching this rubbish"

@Foolsandtheirmoney I agree so much with what you’ve said. My ds has dx asd and adhd. I probably have adhd. My dp likely has asd (not yet dx).

Dp panicked and got upset with me yesterday in the morning when I reminded him to do something urgent before he left for work. His behaviour was completely unreasonable BUT it happened because:

1. He really struggles with executive functioning and remembering his own very urgent piece of life admin was impossible for him.

2. He can’t cope with changes to his routine and he has a complex morning ritual involving making coffee and doing certain jobs in the house. The need to do the urgent task instead of his next steps in the routine caused him upset.

3. He sometimes struggles with understanding others’ motivations due to difficulties with social skills. He interpreted my reminders as critical.

4. He has challenges with emotional regulation so once the above had upset him he couldn’t manage to just keep calm and carry on.

I can totally identify with that situation. It's a spot on example of what I mean by behaviour just being written off as arsehole behaviour, yes it is unreasonable behaviour on the surface but it is far more complex.

Surely it would be ableist to not try to understand the challenges that our partners face and just write it off as 'arsehole behaviour' but it seems lots of posters with asd here would rather that we do that. They presume to better know and understand our partners than we do which when you have had an intimate relationship with them for 20 years is laughable. Also talking about this with other people that are trying to support adult ND men is vital imo, not just so we can support each other but so we can better support our partners and in most case our ND children too.

Thank you - I'd recreate it but this thread seems headed in the same direction.

Apparently constant and patient willingness to educate (often the same posters over and over again) is a reasonable demand on MN, anything else makes us Uber PC (probably gawn maaaad).

I am surprised you haven’t been able to get a BB this is outrageous! Have you asked the council again? They shouldn’t be leaving you like this.

I can only get a BB from my council with proof of the mobility aspect of PIP. Or maybe with a concrete diagnosis explaining why I can't walk, but I don't have one of those either. I did try before, but without a qualifying document to upload, it's tumbleweed. To be fair, the BB is apparently on its way now I've been able to provide said proof.