Scout groups not enough Volunteers

[girlfriend44]

Local Scout group has lots of children signed up but enough volunteers do in danger of closing.

Is this the same everywhere?
What stops people from volunteering?

In which case they are not as useful as volunteers because how much value can they add if they can't run anything solo.
I can't see a unit running effectively with lots of people with limitations and only one or two who can do everything. It puts the pressure on those that are DBs etc

They do have some value, sometimes it's the difference between a unit staying open or closing. That's a massive value, IMO.

Also, running a parent rota can be a great way of showing parents what we do, and can sometimes lead to parents becoming full time volunteers. It's happened on more than one occasion in our pack.

I am not a "taker". I want to pay for the cost with money not time.

You are a taker! You want to have what you want and to hell with everyone who can't afford to pay.

You've misunderstood. I'm happy to pay more than what it costs for my child and provide for subsidising others. I Don't. Have. Time

And before i'm accused of not spending time for my kids, i spend what little time i have where i have the skills to get most from it (i can supervise their music practise etc and support them with homework).

It doesn't make you a worse human being to want to cover the financial cost of something rather than give your time. People are just judgy about it if they can't afford the financial cost. Well I can't "afford" the time cost so don't make feel bad about that if you wouldn't bully someone with less money.

Also sometimes it can get really annoying when everyone doesn't realise many organisations like this are kept alive not only by people who give their time, but also people who donate money.

My kids aren't even in our local scout group but I've financially supported every bloody fundraiser it runs, extensively. I know from a friend running it that they are completely reliant on people like me, and also that most of their financial support in our area comes from people who don't have kids in the troop.

Just be careful you don't alienate people who donate money instead of time, unless you want those people to walk away. Those financial donations are needed.

My husband used to be a scout leader but the endless paperwork for safety/ insurance box ticking just drained the enjoyment out of it.

What I would prefer is something in the same vein but with paid, trained staff and no obligation for me to help. I would happily pay significantly higher fees for this to be made available

You've misunderstood. I'm happy to pay more than what it costs for my child and provide for subsidising others. I Don't. Have. Time

These two statements seem to contradict each other. Look, I totally get that you wouldn’t enjoy helping at scouts - it’s not everyones idea of a good time. But it often IS necessary if a group is to survive. As generous as it is for people to give money at a fundraiser, the gift of time is far more valuable for most groups. You could have the richest scout group in the country, but that’s no good if there’s no one to run it.

I would have been happy to be on a parent rota at ours. I did email saying and then after no response said in person. But no one got back to me so I never got a chance to see what it involved.

What stops me from being a full leader (as opposed to helping on the rota)

Confidence

I volunteer in multiple other orgs, it’s a lot of time, our group are too linked to the local church and they blur the lines too much.

You could have the richest scout group in the country, but that’s no good if there’s no one to run it.

Money could pay for someone to run it.

Also you could have 5 volunteers and if there's no money that camp still ain't gonna happen.

Money could pay for staff.

Donated time won't pay for tents, scout huts, electricity bills, food, insurance etc.

@AloysiusBear It would be a very unattractive job. A set number of a few hours every week, plus paperwork and planning.

And I think you would be shocked if you had to pay the real cost for Scouts.

What killed our amazing local scout group was entitled parents who massively take the piss. Who needs that shit as a volunteer?

*Also you could have 5 volunteers and if there's no money that camp still ain't gonna happen.

Money could pay for staff.

Donated time won't pay for tents, scout huts, electricity bills, food, insurance etc*

The majority of our scout groups costs are covered by subs, at £30 per term. Donations do go towards our larger costs, such as new tents. But volunteers run these fundraisers, as well as weekly meetings etc. If we had to pay for anyone's time, it would not longer be financially viable. It's not that we aren't grateful for financial donations, of course we are, but to suggest that we are completely reliant on them just isn't true.

Then, of course, there's the fact that many people support scout fundraisers for the very fact that they are run by volunteers, and people appreciate what we are trying to do for young people in our area at low cost. If we were paid, or and charged much more in fees, perhaps people wouldn't be so quick to donate to a group like this?

And how much money do you think it would need to put on a camp for the weekend, if we had to pay for 'staff'? We usually charge around £40 for a two night camp, providing food, activities, and equipment such such as tents, shelters, cooking equipment etc. If we had to pay for 'staff', perhaps 5 for a weekend at a cost of, say, £10 per hour, for a minimum of 48 hours, plus the volunteers who run scout campsites, keeping costs down, plus the volunteers who train for and run activities such a climbing, abseiling etc, you are probably looking an additional cost of around £3000 for the weekend. So you are either adding around £150 per child for the weekend camp, pricing it out for many, or you would need one hell of a fundraiser to cover those costs. And that's even assuming you can get 5 'staff' who are prepared to give up their weekend for £10 an hour.

And I think you would be shocked if you had to pay the real cost for Scouts

This is true.

@AloysiusBear It would be a very unattractive job. A set number of a few hours every week, plus paperwork and planning.

Its like any others children's activity groups. You would get people running squirrels 3-.30-4.30, beavers 4.30-5.30, cubs 5.30 -6.30, scouts 6.30, and doing a differenr village/suburb each night of the week. You could easily get it to 25 hours a week.

It doesn't have to be 100% paid leaders but i suspect you'd have parents more willing to help on longer camps if they never had to pitch in in the week & deal with running the troop day to day.

Im playing devils advocate here because i found it very offensive to be accused of being "a taker" by a pp for being willing to give (a LOT) of money to compensate for being time poor. Like many parents i already do the pta etc etc but scouts is renowned for being a time commitment most struggle with.

So you are either adding around £150 per child for the weekend camp, pricing it out for many, or you would need one hell of a fundraiser to cover those costs.

Im not stupid. I can imagine it would cost at least that (although the beaver camps round our way don't involve any of this, its 24 hours max, there's no abseiling or expensive activities, its far more basic/cheap games, and a night in a tent). I've donated £500 to the local scouts over the last 5 yrs through various fundraisers and my kids don't even go!

I'm just saying, in life - don't knock the people who are time poor but do contribute money. Our pta is full of people saying smugly "well i give my time instead" but sitting in the pub for meetings every month doesn't actually raise any money, and most of what those people spend their time doing is.... asking others to give their hard earned cash. We NEED the people who actually hand over the cash! Interestingly during covid, we made more money for the school scrapping all the things that require volunteer time and just receiving cash donations.

Read my comments about not having time.

Its the bullshit excuse.

I know how little time DH has. He doesn't have time.

Still does it. Cos its about what chooses to prioritise.

What you are saying is scouts is not for you and your kids which is something different.

Its like any others children's activity groups
What other childrens group are you referring to? I don’t know of any that offer anything like the scouts, at a similar cost, unless also run by volunteers (such as Boys Brigade, Cadets etc). In our area we did have a group offering a similar thing for a while, run by a group of ex-marines, but it didn’t last long as people didn’t want to pay the price per session they were having to charge to make it financially viable.

It doesn't have to be 100% paid leaders but i suspect you'd have parents more willing to help on longer camps if they never had to pitch in in the week & deal with running the troop day to day. I don’t think this is true. Would you be? If you’re the type of parent who regularly pitches in, your also the type of parent who will give up a weekend to camp, at least in my experience.

I'm just saying, in life - don't knock the people who are time poor but do contribute money
I’m not, genuinely I’m not. It’s very generous of people, and donations are gratefully received.- it does help give the young people a better experience. What I am knocking is people who want to send their kids but aren’t prepared to give up 1.5 hours per term to do so (let’s face it, almost all people could do this - I accept there’ll be one or two who genuinely can’t, but they’re pretty few and far between), And then say that the answer is to charge more, not appreciating that this will cause some children to not be able to afford to attend. It’s missing the whole point of scouting.

Interestingly during covid, we made more money for the school scrapping all the things that require volunteer time and just receiving cash donations. That’s great for the school. And shows that perhaps fundraising could be done differently (although some fundraising is also about providing an experience fir the children - school discos, summer fairs etc). I also think that things were very different during covid, and similar fundraising schemes may not continue to work now.
It also doesn’t get round the fact that to run a childrens activity group at a fraction of the price of a commercial group, we will always need volunteers.

What would happen is the same people who volunteer would do the job. Or disinterested teenagers or young adults on minimum wage who really wouldn't be the best people to do as they aren't emotionally invested in giving the kids a good experience.

Except then they'd get the parents weaponised to be demanding pricks. And that would kill scouts anyway.

As i said before the point is about fostering involvement and community spirit. You can't just buy it.

You wouldn't get paid staff you needed for the hours and the aggro.

If you want a youth organisation which pays staff go join Air Cadets.

If you want to throw toys out of pram about financially supporting because someone points out that paid for leaders goes against the ethos of scouting, then you simply don't get it either.

The whole point is about driving interest and dedication to help others around you without being paid. The payment is an emotional reward rather than capitalistic notions of expectation for payment and financial reward. Its giving of yourself thats the core value.

We fundraise by giving time for community events that the community wants (doing stuff that people actually want at low value not just begging for money or check out bag packing cos that's the trick to get a good amount) and by getting grants from other community fundraising stuff. Personal donations of £500 are extremely rare and uncommon and not really what scouting survives off tbh.

I hate all the assumptions on this thread that parents who don't help out are just being mean and entitled. I can't help because I have other children that I can't just vanish away. DH is still commuting home at the time, paid babysitting round here is incredibly hard to find, and we don't have close family or friends to ask. This is the case for pretty much all parents I know. Work and children take all your time.

I volunteered at brownies for a few years back when I was a student when I didn't have responsibilities/had time. None of the leaders or other volunteers at that time had young children, it just seems unrealistic to think that the majority of people with young children have time for volunteering on top.

If you want to throw toys out of pram about financially supporting because someone points out that paid for leaders goes against the ethos of scouting, then you simply don't get it either.

I do get it.

But at the end of the day, scouting doesnt get enough volunteers so whatever you are doing isnt working.

Just on maths, there should be enough former scouts to do it. The fact that many don't means that even if the organisation does teach people to give back, they still aren't for some reason. Why is that?

For those who can't commit to regular sessions, you can join the committee. Or help with the fundraising. Not all volunteers deal with the kids.

I hate all the assumptions on this thread that parents who don't help out are just being mean and entitled.

This is why i get grumpy on threads like these. Many people have no leisure time. None. You just don't realise. My family don't live nearby, babysitters are £10 an hour where i live, both DH and i work long hours and get asked for help by everything. The nursery wants help. The school wants help. The swimming club want help. The football club want help. You can't step out of the house without people wanting you to drive donations to the food bank, volunteer to help with a lunch club for the elderly, decorate the village hall, etc etc. There just aren't enough hours in the day.

I was talking to a colleague the other day who was mentioning various tv shows. I literally haven't watched tv/netflix etc in years.

If 1.5 hours of free time came up I'd probably desperately take a nap, never mind volunteer for more stuff.

My sister was a guide captain
she stopped because :
paperwork
redtape
awful awful parents expecting things she couldn’t / wasn’t able to do/ was limited to certain things due to health safety and insurance issues
a parent threatening to sue and very little support from higher ups

You wouldn’t put up with that if you were paid
no chance would anyone as a volunteer

Interestingly during covid, we made more money for the school scrapping all the things that require volunteer time and just receiving cash donations.

It wouldn't surprise me. But a school PTA is a very different thing. Parents / Grandparents are emotionally invested and the school membership of children is compulsory. The PTA does not exist to give activities itself - that's the school's job. It comes back to what people value and how monetarising things gives an excuse to sit on backsides guilt free. You can do your bit from your sofa and everyone else will do the hard labour of charity work. In the past this was never an option in communities. Its a lost concept.

Just getting cash donations might increase money to a certain extent for the PTA. I wish they had a better option to do this at our school tbh.

I personally would prefer it if donating was made more direct and easier in part because that works better for us cos we always fundraise for four or five other major events annually anyway.

Having said that I don't think school PTAs should do that in isolation either if they possibly can.

Our school PTA is starting to try and do none cash things to help the school though because the school are struggling in other ways. This needs volunteers to organise. This is stuff like second hand exchanges or second hand materials to aid school experiences so school don't have to pay and so it encourages reusing and recycling. Again, that's teaching a value and trying to normalise second hand as not just for poor kids but an ethical lifestyle choice for better off kids too.

They are looking at setting up other fundraising revenue streams which don't require events in the same way. Who is going to do this if there are no volunteers because no one 'has time to do it'.

However some of the events they do run are about child activities after school or during school so it would be a shame to see them go in favour of just putting out the collecting tin. It does give an opportunity for parents to mix outside school in an organised way without kids.

Oh and guess what. The scouts help (along with another local charity) by lending equipment and set up time to our school PTA to help them run one annual event because of the mutual benefit to the community by doing so. There are cross community ties. We don't help directly with the PTA because members of the PTA know they can come to us for help and support and we are reliable.

And that's the irony for me. Its roughly the same group of people that make all these things work in our community.

You will see the same faces running fireworks, at Christmas, for Rememberance, at the summer fayre, at the pta, running scouts, at other community events. Always the same people. Who don't have time because they have stressful jobs with long hours and other kids yet somehow manage to do it anyway. Cos they value it.

All these community events - from pta to scouts to other fundraising orgs - end up with the kids of the parents involved helping out on stalls or by doing errands or by carrying stuff. And you speak to the kids about how it makes them feel and how they get excited about helping the grown ups... And having that community adds value to property prices.

Trouble is, the trend has been from this is to attract people to move here who want the benefits but none of the hard work. They aren't part of the community and don't want to become part of the community. They've 'bought their rights to get the benefit' without the work because they fail to understand how that destroys it.

Community events are dying off because of the lack of emotional investment in the lives of the people you live around and the concept of getting home from work closing the door to the outside world, switching on a device and relaxing for the evening. Once upon a time you made your own entertainment. That's what volunteering is competing against and that's what is really killing it.

Thousands come to sing carols here every Christmas. Can they get people to steward it this year and hand out programs? Am I expected to believe all these people are 'busy' and don't have the time to get involved in the community...? Guess who is being asked to help out with stewarding this year. That's right. The same fucking people who do all the volunteering everywhere else... This request has peeved off a few to say the least when comments on the Internet say 'oh I love coming to this with my family' in response to requests for help. Absolute jokers and piss takers. And that entitled attitude is also killing off volunteers.

Sorry but I stopped buying into 'I don't have time' a long time ago due to the impact it has and the reality of time in my household. Its actually, 'I don't value this enough to give up my time but I still want to benefit from it. Here is the money underlings to do the graft for me'

We are fighting to preserve something special where we live. It's hard. It's not just about scouting here but a wider thing of which scouting is a part too.

Sick of the excuses tbh.

This is why i get grumpy on threads like these. Many people have no leisure time. None. You just don't realise

I accept there are a few (very few) who have absolutely no leisure time.
But the majority have at least some time.
Or can juggle things around to make it to one scout meeting per term, even if they have to bring younger kids with them, or their other half has to come home from work a little earlier than normal

I'd never make a parent rota compulsory, it's not fair on the kids who's parents just can't come and help. But I still believe that the majority could help if they rearranged things on occasion, it's just that they don't want to.

The nursery wants help. The school wants help. The swimming club want help. The football club want help. And yet, you want your child to do all these things. Many clubs/activities can't happen if parents aren't prepared to help. But parents are quick to moan if clubs have to close.

*But at the end of the day, scouting doesnt get enough volunteers so whatever you are doing isnt working.

Just on maths, there should be enough former scouts to do it. The fact that many don't means that even if the organisation does teach people to give back, they still aren't for some reason. Why is that?*

The majority of leaders at our group are either ex-scouts, or have kids in scouts (either currently or in the past). Many are both. It doesn't mean that all scouts will volunteer at scouting in the future. But I reckon that most will understand the value of volunteering, and may well be more likely to volunteer elsewhere.

There are around 160 000 volunteer scout leaders in the UK. I reckon that's pretty impressive. However, demand for spaces still outstrips supply. These days, parents seem to have less time / less inclination to help, but want their kids to attend every activity going. Many children are doing an activity every night of the week. That just didn't happen when I was a child.