Scout groups not enough Volunteers

[girlfriend44]

Local Scout group has lots of children signed up but enough volunteers do in danger of closing.

Is this the same everywhere?
What stops people from volunteering?

At my DC Guides, to get accepted for a place (v popular and over subscribed) parents need to commit to X sessions per year. They can sign up in advance for each session.

I think this is totally fair and a sensible approach. If there is a primary volunteer willing to give their time consistently as a leader, as a parent 3 times per year is doable for most if you can plan in advance. I’m a more regular helper and have a DBS (although not an official leader) and some of the parents just need to turn up and if they want can use their laptop etc. in the corner. The activity is planned and we need numbers for H&S ratio. Other times they might need to be a bit more involved.

I struggle to imagine many families with 2 working parents who can coordinate drop off/pick ups yet can’t stay for 2 hours, when it’s only 3 times a year and you’d have weeks/months notice. In that case I would think for whatever you really don’t have time to commit for your child to be involved in Scouts/Guides who encourage community type things and and working to badges in their own time. Perhaps another group might be more appropriate where the leaders are paid.

Getting leaders is a whole other issue.

A good friend of mine, a leader for over 10 years is leaving due to the compliance stuff he has to do. No one is stepping up to take over.

For those not wanting to actually lead but want to volunteer, helping leaders with the admin or being on the Exec committee is very useful too

We had this issue in my Guide group and asked parents to do it on a rota each taking a week to make up adult numbers. If each girl had one adult who could volunteer we only would have to ask people to volunteer once every 22 weeks but people had jobs, other kids that would need a sitter and some used us for childcare or as a exchange for when their child was having contact with their other parent.
Eventually some of the older girls became young leaders so solved the issue.

I struggle to imagine many families with 2 working parents who can coordinate drop off/pick ups yet can’t stay for 2 hours, when it’s only 3 times a year and you’d have weeks/months notice. In that case I would think for whatever you really don’t have time to commit for your child to be involved in Scouts/Guides who encourage community type things and and working to badges in their own time. Perhaps another group might be more appropriate where the leaders are paid.

There are pretty few groups where leaders are paid. Sports groups etc are normally run mainly/solely by volunteers too. Youth groups can sometimes have paid staff, but are increasingly rare.

FWIW, I agree 3 times a year is manageable for most BUT realistically if you have multiple children, it is much easier to drop off (with the other child/ren in the car etc) than commit to staying during an evening. Many people do evening work now, as well, so there is one parent caring for the children, whilst the other works etc. It also potentially excludes those with parents with caring responsibilities.

I do get what you are saying, and I think it's good to share the burden, because everyone has a reason as to why they can't do it.

But I can't think of many evening groups where the leaders are paid.

Scouts is very physical - camping hiking etc. have helped out in the past but beyond beavers level - it’s hard to be a volunteer if you aren’t fit. They don’t just need a body in the room, but someone who can get stuck in.

usually the people who are interested in volunteering for the scouting association have dcs the right age for it. But if they also have younger dcs, they need childcare for them or to be able to bring them along. (That isn’t always possible given what they are doing.)

if you think about other people who do volunteering and what sort of time they do volunteering- scouting is tricky, needing people youngish, fit and strong, free to volunteer in early evenings and weekends. You need younger adults (not retired people), who either don’t work or get back from work early than the norm, don’t have other dcs to care for and are happy to give up weekends regularly. Tough to find

I used to volunteer for Rainbows many years ago but I found at regional level the staff were condensing and a big cliques - in a way I have never experienced any where else.

Now I have young children, a husband who sometimes works away and elderly parents who need looking after at a drop of a hat so I just can’t commit to anything.

I was a beaver and then a cub leader for about 10 yrs , I eventually left due to group politics - there is only so long that you can ignore things and when it came down to a safe guarding issue enough was enough . Unfortunately you couldn’t complain at a regional level because most of the rest of my group were born and bred scouts / scout leaders and it was all very clique .

My kids do football instead, DH runs a team, helps out with another and I'm on the committee. DH had to alter his working pattern to fit in football, I assume thats the same for many people that do regular volunteering at Scouts etc. It isn't just a few hours a week, there is a lot of paperwork and training involved and its the whole family agreeing an activity is worth enough to rearrange everyone's week!

I tried to volunteer with DS’s Beavers. I really did try to get involved, do the training and actually help. My god, it was impossible. (I also volunteer at my kids school and at another organisation so it’s not the volunteering or me that’s the problem)

The leaders “emergency” WhatsApp group was maybe 50 messages a day which you had to pick through and read to find the actual actions rather than just gossip/drivel…every day.

The endless talking in secret code that’s never explained (I didn’t do Scouts myself as a kid).

The weirdness of it all…the weird names for the leaders, the odd fawning on the grand high leader (a Middle Aged man in shorts and knee socks whose sole responsibility it seemed was unfurling a flag at random intervals)…

Nothing ever being explained or introduced, you’re just expected to magically know what’s going on without ever being briefed or told.

I stuck at it for one academic year when thankfully DS got fed up with Beavers (the actual meets were chaos, parent helpers standing round chatting while the boys went feral)

DH is a scout leader. The excuse he hears most is 'I don't have time'. Which when he's worked a 70hr+ week in the past in a high pressure job and then done volunteering for something else and done two nights of scouting, he doesn't particularly thing holds up.

He isn't asking them to do it every week like him, he's asking for occasional help. The troop has had a rule since before he was there that if you dont help out when it's your turn and do the fundraisers, then your kid gets the boot. That tends to focus minds a bit. The group couldn't function without a strict policy like that.

It comes down to certain parents not wanting to put in any effort and then hiding behind the 'well I've got a very professional and difficult job' shite. As if DH doesn't.

Parents who make excuses, therefore, don't get a lot of sympathy most of the time (they aren't arseholes either, if there is a genuine reason why someone can't - eg health or family circumstances beyond control or certain emergency workers). But 'I don't have time' generally is not good enough.

The system works well. The parents sign up on the understanding of the commitment involved. There's a massive waiting list, so if that set of parents aren't up for it, the next on the list might be.

The biggest trick has been to make it a social group for the adults, with beers after sessions and to discuss the evening/plan future sessions. The group expanded over lockdown which is counter to the trend. They've now got more volunteers to help regularly, not just occasionally. Happy adults make all the difference as they feel they are getting something from it not just the kids.

DH is now doing less than he was which is something of a relief to me! And he's working less hours.

This is not a description I vaguely recognise!!!

Some groups don't make it easy to volunteer. A list of planned activities and dates and a request for volunteers is fine. I will choose wild games over Christmas crafts on a date that suits me and make sure I'm ok to bring younger DC or arrange childcare. But a vague 'volunteers needed' doesn't help much as you have no idea what is involved.

I’m sure groups differ then @RedToothBrush but OP asked and this was my experience. It was like joining a big clique where everyone has done scouts themselves as kids and knew what was going on and I just found it all a bit awkward and very cringe. Why insist on calling yourself Elm or Stoat or whatever instead of Steve!?

Most of the leaders in our local Scout group work full time, including my husband. Our kids are past scouting age, so he does it for fun, and that's the key. It's something he does that he enjoys and which is a break from his (busy and demanding) job. If it's not fun for the leader, then it's not going to work. Weekly parent volunteers are another matter.

Regarding a parents rota and other children, it may be that some parents might have to pay a babysitter in order to help with their place on a helpers rota. I’ve run Guides for 30 years and on a few occasions, if my husband has been working, I’ve needed to pay a babysitter to enable me to run the meeting. Most parents are grateful and appreciate the effort that goes into running meetings and camps and holidays, but these thanks are very rarely passed on.
Volunteering is hard work but is very rewarding and fun, particularly taking the girls away. But the increasing amount of paperwork is making it more difficult.

I volunteer in several other ways and the pack is run so closely with the local church that it’s not for me.

Volunteering is a lot to take on. I have no kids but work full time and volunteer (not in this area) and it's a big mental load.

I was a Cub leader- 5 years service, including during lockdown - until the end of last year. I gave a term's notice of my resignation and it wasn't until I actually didn't turn up in January that anyone at all stepped forward as leader. 36 Cubs - that's got to be 50+ parents! My children weren't even Cubs any more at this point and I was criticised by parents for resigning!

I’m thinking dance clubs and gymnastics and that sort of thing. Certainly more expensive but also a business so perhaps shouldn’t have said ‘leaders’.

The thing is, it's not necessarily working full time in a "demanding/high powered" job that makes it hard to volunteer. It's often those where one partner works around the other, or those with shift work, or unreliable hours, or those working a second job who will struggle to find the time- i.e. those at a different end of the socio-economic scale. Equally, there are also some jobs which are just really inflexible.

If you have a two parent family with both parents home in the evening, obviously it's possible- but lots of people have lots of different circumstances, and more and more people are taking on additional work due to the CoL crisis. So it's not actually that simple/straightforward.

FWIW, I've volunteered with a sports group before, and I get all the challenges, but I do think some people on this thread are a bit unsympathetic as to how other people's lives work. And I do wonder about the ethics of turning kids away because their parents can't, rather than won't volunteer?

What about children of disabled parents, etc?

I run a Brownie group. The responsibility is huge. You have to organise every single thing including term planning, safeguarding, risk assessment, trips out, resources, finances, correspondence with parents, up to date with courses, division meetings, local meetings, badges, uniform, new starters, it goes on and on. It is utterly overwhelming so I'm leaving in a few weeks at the end of this term.

I think there's a difference between paid for classes, which will be out of budget for many, and evening groups which are more affordable. I do get what you are saying, and I do understand the challenges of trying to run a group when no-one wants to volunteer and help.

Most sports groups to me locally are volunteer based. I think there are one or two paid for dance schools, but if your child isn't into dance, that isn't really much help, is it?

TBF, most of the sports groups have adults who are interested in the sport/part of the club, who give up their time to introduce young people to the sport- I've done this in the past, when I was able to. But they are members of the club, so get something out of it that way- and this probably attracts more younger adults than something that's really solely being provided for children.

I'm also curious about the ratios that scouts/guides are saying are needed- because it sounds like they may be quite high if multiple additional adults are needed to stay at every session?

Scouts is 12:1 (but there must be min 2 adults), and cubs is 8:1.

This.

I stopped being a Rainbows leader when the dads would turn up 10 minutes late as they'd been finishing their pint. Bloody infuriating.