Scout groups not enough Volunteers

[girlfriend44]

Local Scout group has lots of children signed up but enough volunteers do in danger of closing.

Is this the same everywhere?
What stops people from volunteering?

My ds1 is in beavers, when he first joined there was a rota which I happily joined and helped out a few times but they stopped asking for volunteers a year ago. when I asked, apparently they have enough helpers there now with people training so don't need anymore. I'd happily volunteer to go on the rota again but I wouldn't be able to commit every week because I'm a single working parent with ds2 to look after. People also have other commitments and might volunteer for other things so don't want to commit to doing something else - for example I ran the village toddler group before ds2 started school.

Money is an interesting point... DH runs a Scout group in a more affluent area than my Cub group (His is near work). The parents pay more and expect more.

Our parents pay less and are often shocked by what we achieve with it. Helped by the fact we own a reasonable amount of land. But we had to put Subs up this year, first time in 15years, and it did cause some families a rethink. Going "professional" would price out those who most need it.

We are trying to raise our alternative revenue streams again.. pre Covid it was hut/grounds hire. But even that needs volunteer time for administration and opening/closing/checking for damages and cleaning.

It would be very sad if scouts just became another paid for activity that only well off people can afford.

I am an ex scout volunteer and I quit because of the politics

This. I considered volunteering with a similar organisation but it was heavy handedly pushing political messages I did not agree with, so I didn't bother.

I don't know about Scouts but DD is in Guides and enjoys it, but several units Leaders locally have closed and more are vulnerable as the Leaders get older and no new, younger Leaders are coming through.
Parent volunteers, or lack of are part of the problem, but so is having a cohort of younger people wanting to do this.
I think that the push towards running units on a more business like basis and the focus on safety and inclusion is good but another nail in the coffin for the burden of expectations on volunteers.
If people had to pay the actual cost in fees of running a Guide or Scout unit it would be unaffordable for many.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow yes both worked evenings and weekends. My DM in particular. She use to work school hours in the office and then do her remaining hours in the evening and weekend. My DF had to travel lots for work.

They also didn't have the benefit of the internet for things like shopping, banking etc, so they had a lot more demands on their time that way.

I am not saying they were better because they did all this then my generation, but just I think there was a real sense you had a duty to volunteer in your community, which I don't think there is now.

I think it's a combination of the following:

• Time - people are busier nowadays. Jobs are more stressful and we can't just switch off.
• Money - volunteering isn't free.
• Parents - people who don't want to run things themselves don't necessarily shy away from criticizing those who do.
• Red tape - there are so many rules and regulations to follow, and serious penalties for errors.
• The creep/pervert factor - many people are suspicious of people who actively choose to surround themselves with random children.

@boredOf what an intelligent response

People always say they dont have the time to volunteer but some of the volunteers I know are the busiest people I know.

I have volunteered in a number of organizations over the years and I have had a few adults who are always critical of the clubs, when I suggest they join and assist in changing things, they always look at me in disbelief and say they work full time and are too busy - right like I dont work full time too!

I would expect the only way it can survive is to get people to pay the real cost of the activity and pay leaders

This would go completely against the ethos of scouts, as it would not longer be open to all. I can't see this ever happening.

I do understand that for most people, the commitment of volunteering every week is probably too much. But it's frustrating that parents can't even help for 1.5 hours per term to do the parent rota.

We don't generally run a rota, as we have quite a few leaders, but on the occasion we ask for help, it's the same few who always volunteer, but most never do. It's strange how we had no volunteers the week we went litter picking, but lots of volunteers to visit the Police Control Centre! And plenty of parents were willing to take a day off work to come to an Air Tattoo, but it's too difficult to get home an hour early for a usual evening cub meeting.

I grew up in guiding, i come from a long line of guiders and caused a family scandal when i defected to scouts instead of ranger guides.

guiding was the only global organsisation for women and girls by women and girls. And they fucked it, the women and the girls over and I will never forgive them for that.

This would go completely against the ethos of scouts, as it would not longer be open to all. I can't see this ever happening.

Completely agree. One of the points is to teach the kids 'to give'!

I am not a "taker". I want to pay for the cost with money not time.

You are a taker! You want to have what you want and to hell with everyone who can't afford to pay.

There is a certain type of emotional neglect of kids that goes with parents who don't prioritise doing an activity with their kids once in a while, and think they are great parents because they've 'provided' for their kids by paying someone to do it instead.

We find that parents with the attitude that they can just pay are the worst of the worst, because they feel that because they have pay money in some way they are somehow off the hook and can make demands of leaders like they own them too. They are the parents we want least.

The whole point is appreciating and facilitating the involvement of all and the volunteer element is the great leveller. Teaching the kids that you just can pay for everything is part of the problem not the solution.

Frankly, I'd rather scouting went under.

With families having less money, maybe they will value scouts more...

I think the best way I can sum it up: If you can't be arsed to volunteer to help once a term, what is the message you are sending to the kids???

As I said upthread, our group has zero tolerance on parents who don't do something to help (albeit exceptions for certain situations) and thats one of the reasons the troop works so well: the parents appreciate the hardwork of the leaders more as a result and there is less entitled prickishness from parents.

Oh this happened to me.I or DH usually volunteered when they needed parent helpers at cubs as DS is an only so reckoned we had a bit more capacity to help out.

The evening they were due to go to the observatory- which is usually closed to the public - apparently overwhelmed with parental volunteers. The cub leader kindly offered me first dibs as he said I deserved it, but I let those other DPs go instead as it was nice to have a guilt free evening off.

Because I work full time and I'm already on the PTA. I wouldn't want ti volunteer at my son's Beavers as he likes the independence of not having mummy there. If I did another night then I'd not gave any childcare. I'm very grateful to the leaders!

I agree with so much of what @RedToothBrush said.
'Being part of a community' and the fact that 'Community all do what they can to support one another as and when they are able' is very much one of (so many) values young people can learn through Scouting, and similar organisations.

Thing is, that means someone else's kid misses out on that 'independent time', which maybe their kid would very much benefit from too.

At least with doing it occasionally, the kids get independence and also understand that everyone else's parent does the same at least once, so its not a big deal and no one else is picked on for their parents always being there. That way its fair too.

Its normalised as being a community club, where you learn independence, you spend time with a parent, you spend time your friends and you learn about their family a bit... In doing so you learn about different people and different adults in what is (hopefully) a safe environment. Its about learning about that contribution stuff and seeing parents give back.

When we talk about a loss of community, you also need to join the dots up a bit. Unless kids see roll models in their parents and friends parents doing it as a matter of course and 'just something everyone does', then it definitely won't have a future. If you miss that idea, you really are missing a lot of the point.

Its the whole package not a club where you just grunt at other parents at drop off/pick up.

If you can manage to convey that message and get parents to buy into it, thats when it does work. The hard work is forcing a shift in that mentality that you just drop off the kids every week.

I think there is a mentality that people go to work, come home from work, shut the door and close themselves off from the rest of the world. And by the same token, kids join a club and you drop and run and don't think any more of it. Except thats just not Scouting.

Unless you get the community aspect to Scouting, and there's that culture surrounding it and supporting it from all parents of course its doomed to fail. The idea of 'paying someone' to run is a symptom of the problem not a possible solution.

It encapsulates 'it takes a whole village to raise a child' spirit. Thats doesn't come from nowhere. Leaders and parents have to BOTH understand that and generate it.

It can and does still work, if done right and everyone is made aware of thats how it works and signs up to it on that understanding.

I am not a "taker". I want to pay for the cost with money not time

And this is the problem. Too many wanting to pay with money, not enough willing to give the time. If all you want to do is pay with money, then scouts (or guides, or grass roots football etc) is not for you. Then you get the parents who don't want (or can't) to spend any more money, but don't want to give the time either. Or often just can't be bothered, even if they have the time.

My DH found the same as a volunteer football coach. The parents were quite happy to stand on the sidelines, drinking coffee and nattering, but were terrible at giving a helping hand to set up, clear away, wash the kit, give lifts etc. Even though they clearly had the time - they were there at the match. But they were very quick to give their opinion if they thought DH's football tactics were wrong, or they thought their Johnnie wasn't getting enough time on pitch etc.

I'd assume these 'parent rotation' schemes are being phased out because of the safeguarding implications and sheer cost of DBs for occasional helpers.

I don't think our occasional vols need it, they're not alone with kids, no toileting duties etc

In which case they are not as useful as volunteers because how much value can they add if they can't run anything solo.
I can't see a unit running effectively with lots of people with limitations and only one or two who can do everything. It puts the pressure on those that are DBs etc.

Let's say for example I run a unit with my CRB friend and lots of parent helpers.

We're are running two activities, let's say outside and in.

And a child wets themselves.(yes this happens)

So one activity can run with one CRB adult.
And one adult is needed for the accident etc.

What then.

And yes, before anyone says this doesn't happen with that age range it absolutely did happen when I ran a unit.

No occasional parent helpers do not need DBS.

I can't see a unit running effectively with lots of people with limitations and only one or two who can do everything. It puts the pressure on those that are DBs etc.

Dead easy. Parents 'run' the session in pairs or provide the support needed to run it effectively.

So you are doing an evening on astromony, parents plan the activity and show the kids what to do.

The regular leaders are still there to help carry it out and for the safeguarding staff / welcome etc. It takes a huge amount of work away from leaders as they don't have that stress and work to worry about. If you have 24 kids 8 to 10 year olds doing a craft evening, having 4 adults instead of 2 changes it from crowd control to an activity which is worthwhile.

Or if you have a night hike, you have an adequate number of adults to go off site.

Its the difference between the evening being an unmanageable riot and actually productive and worthwhile, and it takes pressure off the regular volunteers to do the planning every week which generally takes up a considerable amount of time in its own right which parents don't normally see.

I tried volunteering but it was a big ask what they expected from you. I'm happy to do safe guarding and first aid but it was relentless the training modules/program they ask you to complete.
I still help out as an occasional helper but to commit you really to do have to be all in and for myself working full time with two children it was way too much, and yes I do help out with rugby/football/pta and none of these ask for anything as much as scouts expect in terms of time and training.

Having run my Brownie unit for the first half of this term with just me and parent helpers (have now found a miraculous fully qualified Leader volunteer who's just moved to the area, hallelujah!) what I can say is no, it doesn't run particularly effectively. Having three (or more) proper Leaders would be way better. But it's better than not running at all, which is my alternative.

Our parents don't get involved in planning activities, unlike @RedToothBrush - they are just there as an extra pair of hands. But with 24 Brownies, if they're all doing a craft activity, or discussing something in their Six, it's very very useful to have extra people to help out when they get stuck, give them hints, etc. Without that, I'm just on crowd control, running around trying to help everyone, and nobody gets much out of it. And of course, without parent helpers in our current state, we would just have had to close the unit as it's not safe or permitted for me to do it alone.

Ideally, I would have at least 3, if not 4 leaders for our group, and not have to rely on parents - until Covid, this was what we had. Our division has been trying to recruit forever. We've had several "interested" responses, some have even done the DBS and online safeguarding training, but then just been incredibly flaky over actually arranging to meet me or come in to visit our Unit meeting.

My DS1 has just started Beavers, and I can already feel myself getting sucked into helping there too, but I think DH would leave!

Leaders will never, ever be paid. HQ can’t even pay staff accordingly for the work they do.