To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

Could say right back at you couldn't I.

i AGREE WITH THIS

What happens if you become pregnant during your ‘sabbatical’. Would you still expect maternity leave???

I agree with the OP, childless people tend to cost their employer far less than those with children. Maternity and paternity leave cost business with those policies a fortune and for many it's multiple times also, yet employees with no children cost businesses nothing additional and get zero in exchange for it.

Those same employees often Also have to work harder covering maternity/paternity and family leave.

This

....but you aren't just recovering from pregnancy and childbirth, focused only on healing and relaxing. You're also round-the-clock caring for a tiny helpless human being who can't do anything for themselves and screams you awake every hour and a half. So it isn't comparable to, say, when I needed major surgery in my 20s. C'mon people are just being silly now.

Put SO much better than I could put it.

Your thread, posts, and attitude are a disgrace @Playfair Shame on you.

Could say right back at you couldn't I.

What?!?

Im not totally misrepresenting any one's statements on this thread, now am I?

Sorry posted too soon, my advice to you would be make the most of not being affected by a reduction in pay that many women suffer for being mothers and pay as much as you can into your pension. Retire early and travel then, a lot of mothers won't even be able to consider this as an option due to the time lost on maternity and subsequent childcare.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

&

I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example

So would everyone else, do you think mothers dont wish they could have travelled the world?

No one is getting what you want, you acknowledge in the first line that you understand that maternity is nessacery and hard work not a holiday so why do you think you should not partake in that nessacery hard work but then also get specifically rewarded for it with something no one else gets?

No words. Seriously. Just no words.........

I assume you had children because YOU wanted them,not out of a sense of duty to populate the planet?

You haven't just made up something new, this already exists so if this is something you want why aren't you working for a company that offers it? Although they offer it to all employees not just childless women because that would make no sense at all. Imagine asking a woman to swear she isn't going to have kids before offering her a sabbatical😂

BUT it’s a choice to have a child and take maternity leave. So why not offer that choice to all women, to take paid time off work to do what they please with. If you want to spend it sleep deprived and clearing up sick and dirty nappies, good for you…

And this is so stupid. Having children is of benefit to society, they are future tax payers. You pissing off on a 6 month holiday is not of benefit to anyone but you. It's really simple. It's choice to not have a child and not take maternity leave, good for you.

Statutory maternity leave isn’t very much at all.

Businesses who offer benefits such as full pay for 6 months often do so to encourage mothers to return to the workforce after having children. There’s often a clause to say if you don’t come back and work x amount of months you have to repay it. There’s a solid business reason for doing so, there isn’t a solid business case for 6 month paid sabbaticals to all and sundry.

It's a pretty tone deaf idea in the middle of a cost of living crisis.

Most folk just now are just desperate for a pay rise and help with their bills.

Not 6 months paid 'hobby time'.

Yes I'd love to be able to take 6-12 months off, unpaid, and know that my job was waiting for me when I get back. Perhaps one day I'll have the balls to just quit my job, go travelling, and hope I get a new one when I get back.
In reality though, it would just be too challenging and unmanageable for most employers to grant this sort of career break.

Having maternity leave is the furthest thing from 'time off'.

That doesn't change the outcome though? Just because I chose to have children because I wanted them it doesn't stop them from being future tax payers and of benefit to society.

You do know that maternity leave isn't the same as just having time off work? Being a sleep deprived milking machine is actually quite tough.

Is it really a CHOICE to WANT to have a baby? Don’t most of us feel the urge that’s been programmed into us biologically? I can frequently see how people are advised to divorce when one of the partners wants no sex just like sex is a divine right. But why can’t you make a CHOICE not to want sex instead? I find this conversation about having choices pretty wild. Yes, maybe having multiple children is a choice, however having children in general is what we are programmed to feel. I refuse to feel sorry for wanting to have children. Those children (if I’m lucky) will grow up to become someone, maybe (hopefully) someone who will help others or change the world somehow. Sorry OP, but your urge to travel is also a choice. You can make a choice not to travel. Having a car is a choice. I refuse to inhale the fumes, so don’t have a car, OP. I don’t have a car and you are spoiling my air. How far can we go with this?

I very much want to agree with you OP.

But.

I think that while you’re right that having babies is a choice on an individual level, on a national scale it is less of one.

If every woman decided they didn’t want a sabbatical - society would be doing OK.

If every woman decided they didn’t want a baby- we’d be screwed.

So saying you can have a lovely paid holiday OR time off with your baby, would massively disincentivise women from having babies and the birth rate would drop massively.

I feel discriminated against that I've not lost a close family member yet and so haven't taken any compassionate leave for a funeral. People who haven't been to funerals should get days off for Netflix marathons instead. It's just so unfair

I hope you're aware that maternity leave isn't a holiday.

With my first I had a gaping hole underneath my vagina resulting from being stitched up badly. I had it for 6 months as NHS dragged their heels during Covid so had recurrent vaginal infections. I also had a 2.1 litre blood loss during birth that I needed to recover from.

With my second I had a controlled C-section, but she screamed without any apparent reason for hours each day for the first 3 months of her life, to the point where we had to take her to A and E one day, where they also couldn't help us.
I was the only one who was able to cope with her screaming, my husband and mother couldn't deal with it, but it is very hard to to be in a room with a baby that screams at the top of their lungs for hours and you can do nothing to help the situation.

I really don't understand why you think you deserve paid leave just because some women go on maternity leave.

This windup has been done before

presumably if a woman took her allotted “paid leave to do what you like” and enjoyed travelling but then subsequently accidentally got pregnant she would just have to have an abortion or return to work straight after the birth. She’s made her life choices after all

Bah ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! 😂