To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

I’m a teacher and I didn’t originally think I would have a baby, it just didn’t seem like something I wanted. A switch flipped at some point and suddenly I did. I’m kind of coming at this from a different point of view though. For years I heard everyone say how hard and awful the whole thing was. Obviously they said there were good bits too but on the whole it just sounded terrible, the only positive seemed to be that you weren’t at work. When I had my baby I was an infant teacher and had 25 little people shouting my name all day, needing me to do every little thing for them. Suddenly I found myself sitting on the sofa with a newborn sleeping in his moses basket like omg everyone else is at work, this is amazing! 😂 It did help that he was the easiest baby on planet earth and has slept all night every night since he was 6 weeks old but to me, other than a few occasions where it definitely was hard going, I would say I did find it easy 🙈 I hate saying that in case it makes someone who is having the opposite experience feel like they should find it easy too when all babies and parents are so different. For me compared to spending all day in a room full of loads of children shouting me, having one who needed me really didn’t seem that bad at all. So I’m not saying it was quite a holiday but I did get to go holidays etc during it and got a cheap deal while all my colleagues were working away. So I can see it from both sides definitely! I don’t know how in theory it would work but maybe more flexibility for people without children would be a start

. If anything the current situation is discriminatory.

Having a desire to go travelling and get paid for it is not a protected characteristic.

Thank you for sharing this. I was aware of the concept but not the detail.

I don't think it should be a race to the bottom though, we should improve conditions for women returning to work and ensure they have equal opportunity and we should also consider fair treatment for others.

@Deguster I was constantly told that my absence was disruptive, that I couldn’t possibly do phased return or leave early when tired. Pregnant? Take as long as you need, forget work!

I think you’ve made up some pretty wild assumptions about pregnancy and maternity leave. I couldn’t leave early because I was tired, I couldn’t do a phased return, I couldn’t go back part time, I couldn’t take as long as I needed. Pretty standard experience.

So as a childless person you’d like a period of paid time off whoever you’d like to do travel and hobbies, but a mother has to use that time to recover from pregnancy/labor and care for her newborn baby, with the mothers own hobbies and interests, sleep, rest etc a distant memory during that time??

How are the two even remotely comparable??? You really have no idea

Thanks yes exactly this.

Your OP shows how are clueless you are. Maternity leave involves recovering from birth injuries and several months of manual labour (breastfeeding, burping, nappy changes, endless laundry) on almost no sleep.

Working full time IS a sodding holiday compared to caring for a newborn.

YABU and silly. Did you get lost on the way to Reddit? They love this kind of sexist shite over there.

Have you actually cared for a seriously ill or dying parent or a loved one who has dementia?
What an insensitive, insulting and lacking in compassion and empathy post.

Because they are both choices.

Just like a hiking holiday wouldn't be my choice, or a fishing holiday or going and volunteering for a month in a disaster zone etc....

People should be able to have a paid sabbatical to raise a child, travel or just sit at home.

And the mother has made that choice. Seems some women think they deserve a medal for being a mother. I'd give my right arm to be mum.

I would love to take a year off work to travel extensively. I think most people would. To compare a sabbatical with maternity leave is ridiculous.

OP

If you'd started a thread about wouldn't it be awesome if people could get paid time of for sabbaticals you'd probably have got support.

But by making out you are being discriminated against for not having a baby and comparing your dreams of paid travel time entitlement to pregnancy and maternity leave is just not going to go down well with most rational people.

Yabu

That would be an official carers' leave. Some countries in Europe are introducing this - also, e.g. for grandparents looking after grandkids. All contingent on documented needs though, which I gather is different from what OP's asking for.

People do this all the time

its called a paid sabbatical - many large companies offer them

I guess the fair thing to do is to offer everyone sick leave with the same pay as maternity for 3 months and carers leave with the same benefits.

Indeed. Many posters here getting irate about needing maternity leave to recover from surgery - but people go through far worse and more debilitating surgeries without anything like the same level of pay or legal protections as maternity leave.

Posters find the idea of a sabbatical objectional - fine - but pretending that a C-section is the worst surgery anyone could ever have, such that it warrants special leave and rights compared to someone having a heart transplant or leg amputated is utter garbage.

And people know it or they wouldn't be getting so damn defensive about it.

Or because the vast majority of women are mothers?

Seems some women think they deserve a medal for being a mother.

Absolutely no one on this thread is suggesting that. C'mon now, don't be an arse.

I think you're looking at this through the rose tinted glasses of your employer offering enhanced maternity pay. If they had to extend that to everyone, I can guarantee they would offer the bare minimum because they wouldn't want people to take them up on the offer.

Realistically maternity leave is disruptive for employers. If everyone was entitled to leave at that rate, they would be doing everything in their power to discourage people from taking them up on it.

A lot of people would forgo their right to it in order to make themselves more attractive to employers so it wouldn't benefit them anyway and it would be at the disadvantage to anyone who took them up on the offer, would you be happy to be passed over for promotion because you took the time off? (The reality is a lot of mothers find themselves in this position).

Fwiw, I took 6 weeks official maternity leave because my employer couldn't afford to replace me temporarily. It did mean I got a great flexible working package out of it that has allowed me not to fork out for childcare in the same way other women are forced to. If everyone had right to leave at the same rate as maternity leave it would cripple the company I work for, we don't have the level of staff to sustain it.

I agree with this completely.

It doesn’t take a year to recover from giving birth, and after a few months looking after a baby becomes not that difficult

plus many split their parental leave, so I think it’s a very fair comparison.

Degusta seems to assume that only childfree women get cancer!

but pretending that a C-section is the worst surgery anyone could ever have, such that it warrants special leave and rights compared to someone having a heart transplant or leg amputated is utter garbage.

Again, absolutely no one is saying that. However the point of mat leave is to look after a totally dependent being, often having just had such surgery.