To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

@AMorningstar

true

sometimes it is a case of subjecting to
yourself to baby years in the hope of more fun/rewarding times later

Yeah pretty much. I like it much better when they're little people who can do things.

Some of the ideas in this chat are def a utopian society type idea - everyone gets 2 x 6m off fully paid for example. Lovely idea, but how does this get funded? I'll tell you how, humans will become expendable because they cost more than robots. So, when AI takes over your job, you can take as much time off as you like, just don't expect a big pay cheque. Like the rest of us you'll be on benefits....

Yes I haven't RTFT but a lot of the responses I am reading focus on the fact that it's time off work and what makes time off for x more relevant than time of for y for the individual.

Regardless of whether you're a doomsday "no kids should be born in this world anymore" type of person, it's basic common sense that in order for society to continue in any sense, people literally need to have babies. It might be a choice at an individual level, but we cannot structure society based on the fact that some people might not choose to have children. Society needs to be structured to support and deal with the fact that women, from unskilled employees to career women, need to be able to care for babies, and be able to return to their career.

Society doesn't have to do that. But it creates a lot of shit for parents, children and people in general if we act like having children and being parents isn't valued.

It would be nice if society was also structured to support people with their travel plans etc, but as I said in my first post, comparing leave for personal interest to maternity leave just obfuscates the point and makes anything you say sound like jealousy/a dig at the concept of maternity leave.

It’s more to do with a. Recovery from birth and b. A child’s need for a consistent primary care giver in the first year of life- if this isn’t there then it can lead to emotional and developmental issues which are not only an issue for the child but society as a whole.

Maternity leave is an essential part of reducing crime, mental illness, unemployment, abuse/neglect, poor education etc etc. Those issues are more common in those who did not have at least 1 main parental figure who stays consistent throughout their early years (normal childcare is fine). Children who do have a secure attachment are also more resilient to triggers such as trauma; so for example they are less likely to suffer mental ill health in later life if they experience a traumatic event.
It is in societies best interests that all children have a parental figure having some sort of maternity leave, so whilst it may seem like mothers are paid to have a holiday, they’re actually doing something essential for the next generation.

I love this! But apparently lots of people don't give a shit because they need the equivalent paid time off to go travelling or whatever. And that's what the money should be spent on rather than nurturing children, because it was our choice to have them (as women, as it's not like the men could, and as we're women it's fine for us to take the hit to our income and careers.) Mind boggles.

Enhanced maternity leave is a benefit

not a right

hence why not all women get it

What if the pregnancy was caused by a brutal rape? So tired of all the comments always assuming the pregnancy was a choice.

Imagine if this was the case and the mother had to then adequately "prove it" in order to qualify for extra maternity leave since she'd already used hers. Bit grim.

Having children, and by extension maternity leave, is a choice.
YANBU, OP.

well done for ignoring nearly 40 pages of intelligent debate 🤦‍♀️

You’re absolutely right- In an ideal world everyone should have the freedom to do what they want without financial concerns. That is not comparable to maternity leave.

This

But we’re talking about being allowed to take 6 months off a job; a sabbatical is usually unpaid.

also - if we honestly expect women who choose NOT to have kids to be granted a paid benefit, how would you police women who say they don’t want kids, take the no-child mat leave pay, for them to later turn around and need paid mat leave? Its like a loop of indefinite leave for any reason that applies to your lifestyle choices at any given time. Ridiculous

Yep!

Yes yes yes this. You might legitimately argue that the planet has enough people on it and call for sub-replacement birth rates, but you can't have zero births because someone younger than us will have to wipe our arses in the nursing homes we end up. When women have kids, it's not just a personal choice but also a net benefit to the rest of us by creating future citizens and workers. Mat leave enables women to deliver that net benefit.

Have you any idea how insensitive that post is? The irony of you telling other people they have no fkg idea.

When women have kids, it's not just a personal choice but also a net benefit to the rest of us by creating future citizens and workers. Mat leave enables women to deliver that net benefit.

But it is always a personal choice. No one has children in order to deliver a net benefit to the rest of us, or are you arguing that they do?

Regardless of whether you're a doomsday "no kids should be born in this world anymore" type of person, it's basic common sense that in order for society to continue in any sense, people literally need to have babies. It might be a choice at an individual level, but we cannot structure society based on the fact that some people might not choose to have children.

Indeed. Lots of things are choices on a personal level that affect society as a whole. I mean, nurses, teachers, police officers, social workers etc all choose their careers mainly for personal reasons no doubt. Good job they do to keep daily life ticking. People decide to have babies for personal reasons too - but it’s part of a bigger picture. And again that’s just as well too.

Remember that mums are still working - actually harder! - when on Maternity leave. But I have always felt that it's hard on the Staff who never take Maternity leave because covering for others is hard work. You have to explain things to the temporary Staff, and all in all you work harder to keep continuity going. So I do think they deserve some kind of reward, maybe a few days leave for every Maternity stint they cover for a Colleague.
Btw I am a mum.

Again, I don’t see that choosing to become a nurse or police officer is in any way comparable to choosing to become a parent.

JanetSally, your message to Mistystar99 is absolutely right! Well said!

Mistystar99 Don't EVER say such insensitive things about people without children! You have "no idea"! So many people yearn for a child and cannot have one.

Again, I don’t see that choosing to become a nurse or police officer is in any way comparable to choosing to become a parent.

Why? @KimberleyClark

Are you really that smug?

Sorry that was addressed to @BeanieTeen