To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

@KimberleyClark I don’t understand what you consider smug and neither do I understand your previous comment - hence my question. Either answer or don’t 🤷‍♀️

This is just obfuscation though. Career choice is not relevant to the discussion of maternity leave in this context.

Yes giving birth is (sometimes) a choice. The result of that choice is that someone needs to care for that baby. What relevance does the fact that people can choose different careers have? In fact, what relevance is it that having a baby is a choice? The point is that may leave serves a necessary purpose. All the reasons it is essential have been well articulated on this thread

I used to think this too. Then I had a baby. I won’t ever have another one (cancer) but even if I could, I don’t think I would have - this has been so, so hard. Even before the cancer diagnosis my maternity leave was not what I imagined it would be. Reflux baby, failure to gain weight due to terrible breastfeeding struggles and resulting poor mental health (turns out one boob was trying to kill me so at least I can let go of that guilt, turns out it wasn’t for want of trying/cluster feeding/positioning after all) hip dysplasia and a pavlik harness…there’s been no hanging out at baby groups or coffees in town over here. My opinion now is that carers/sick leave should be better in some jobs. This is what my mat leave has essentially been, so others should be entitled to it too.

My position on annual leave, however, hasn’t changed - those with children should not get priority over those who don’t. People with children don’t have an automatic right to have Christmas off, for example, just because they have kids - those without have families too and they have just as much right to that time as anyone else.

You could always move to the u.s. where maternity and medical are only covered by employer choice

@KimberleyClark Yes I have experienced years of infertility and only conceived through IVF so bit of a presumption there.

Just noticed that you and another poster who have been unable to have children come across as nasty and yes a little bitter. More so than the childfree posters. I hope some counselling helps you if you haven't already used it

Can I ask you again, do you really not understand why people who can’t have children might feel a little bitter? I also went through years of IVF but it didn’t work for me.

And I’m genuinely glad it did for you btw.

I'll agree with you, but not with OP. OP wants to take the time to travel and enjoy herself. It is in no way analogous to taking care of a newborn, which generally means getting two-hour naps when you are lucky enough to manage them.

That said, there certainly should be some sort of family leave to, as you said, look after dying parents or other such real emergencies.

This isn’t the gotcha you think it is…..

This probably wasn’t meant with malice but your post is offensive to people who need care from others. It’s degrading to compare proving personal care (plus extras) for an adult with disabilities to being a parent to your own child. I am a parent and I have worked in a paid caring role. It is not comparable. Those who are unpaid carers for loved ones work 100 times harder than parents or paid carers. Hats off to them.

My issue is not necessarily that I’m against another leave. It’s that OP wants another leave because women get leave when they give birth. Even though it is a necessity. And then saying things like “well this was their CHOICE. They CHOSE to get pregnant.” All the rape victims in the chat would like to disagree. Also Why is it that you feel owed more leave because pregnant women are getting the proper leave that they have rightfully earned? Also would like to point out this isn’t even just about the mothers. The BABIES need their parents with them. I can go into a long long list of reasons why shipping a newborn straight off to daycare is a horrible idea. And not everyone has supportive family too watch them.

What it sounds like is that OP is very misguidedly jealous of maternity leave even though no decent parents is having a picnic on maternity leave.

OP if you just want more leave for the sake of it just say so. But don’t ask for it in the name of maternity leave or as some kind of prize for not having children.

I don't think YABU with the idea of everyone being able to have an extended period off work to do what they love, whether that's raising their cute newborn or travelling around Asia but I think there are better ways of achieving this goal @Playfair .

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but if they introduced Universal Basic Income, that coupled with employers allowing unpaid leave for say 3-6 months would probably allow everyone whether parents or child-free for life, the ability to take a few months off to travel, write a book, go on intensive therapy course etc because they'd be receiving UBI during their unpaid leave.

Obviously the society we are living in is moving further away from that kind of thing and we have just kind of accepted that we're all worker bees who should be content to work every hour we can and come back to a cold home and pull three jumpers on to avoid switching the heating and all the rest of it...but it's a nice thought!

Hear hear, well said.

This is one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever read in my 2 decades of frequenting parenting forums.

To find 1 person so entitled they post about this in the first place is beyond madness, but to find that there are some that agree with her is just unfathomable.

If I’m being frank I initially thought it was a troll thread.

It really wasn't meant as a gotcha.

I don’t have children and have worked without a break for thirty years until quite recently. I have seen many women go off on maternity leave and truthfully most have always given the impression of enjoying that time. So maybe I am just taking them at face value too much because I have learned just now that it is an awful time. ☺️

Regardless, the suggestion that childless women should get similar paid leave is ludicrous! Why just the childless women for a start? Maternity leave is there for a very good reason because it is needed and yes I would see it as something akin to sick leave, in the sense that if you don’t need it, you don’t get it.

I agree though I’m not against anyone getting an occasional time off. You deserve a break! I am just l like you though. I find OP’s rains are rather illogical. Also there is a weird stigma about being honest about the struggle in the first year of motherhood. It is rough but if you say that out loud many people will interpret it as you don’t like your kid which is not true. My daughter was absolutely adorable as a newborn but I’m not going to sugar coat it she was quite boring and needy. I enjoy her much more as a toddler.

30 years without a break? Do you know that you are legally entitled to over a month of paid annual leave?

Maternity leave is not a holiday or a “break from work”, it’s just different, usually harder work.

This completely depends on both the job and the baby. I found it both easier and more enjoyable by factor of about a hundred. Most HCPs feel the same.

I find Zalturkas message disgusting. I have stage 4 cancer. I don’t get “loads of sick leave”. In fact I got made redundant from my last role (during covid) not long after returning from the emergency surgery to remove the largest tumour (legally checked out fine but morally corrupt company).

i can’t afford to take lots of time off (work full time) and cancer patients NEED sick leave to recover from treatment, deal with emotions, have regular scans and appointments and everything else that you never wanted to be part of your life. I have also had two children and only received SMP for them . I had two ectopic pregnancies, one life threatening, only received two weeks paid sick leave after them.

i can see the OPs post having some valid concept but only in private sector. To suggest that you would want the equivalent time off to a cancer patient is - to me- a morally reprehensible way of being flippant. I’d swap with you any day. And I’m sure my young kids would swap with yours.

This is one of those threads that exposes people's intelligence and critical thinking, as well as entitlement. It is a good reminder to take most of what you read on here with a pinch of salt.

Yes I definitely understand. I just think making the mother's on this thread the subject of your ire isn't quite fair. I would be focusing it more on the lack of paid time off for fertility treatment. I had to use my holidays or go unpaid for the day during the IVF cycles. It was really annoying. 🤬 I am so sorry it didn't work. I do count my blessings every day.

I think that's a brilliant scheme.

One last thought as this ridiculous thread comes to an end. If the op receives her six month holiday would she be happy with the impact it has on her career. Missed work opportunities, less likely to be promoted. Reduced earning/respect comparatively to her peers who didn't 'swan off' for six months.

Yeh u should have paid time off..but it MUST include;

1. 2 hours sleep max for the entire 6 months per night
2. A vagina that won't stop bleeding for about 4 weeks.
3. Leaking tits
4. Crying baby all times of the day.
5. No time to take a shit or a piss
6. Thoughts of ending it all from crippling PND
7. Breakdown of relationships.
8. Not feeling human
9. Not remembering wat a day off/holiday even is.

10. Running up of huge debts.

Because OP, pregnancy and birth are both beautiful. But you have not a single fucking clue the toll it takes on your mind and body and your life as a whole

Grow up. I have 1 child, won't have any more but my god I would never think of wanting 6 months off every couple of years because I'm jealous of pregnant women having a maternity 'holiday'.

Well I think that post tells us all we need to know about you.

I was going to report it but I think it should stay so that people can see your true colours.