To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

The UK is a small nation so unsure of your point

Not without some bitterness it seems.

So you want to go back to the 1960s when women had to stop working if they had children?

I don't disagree that there should be help for those who need to look after sick or dying relatives but that isn't something that only happens to the childless so I'm sure you would still think it unfair.

?

who said they’re offering it anyway?

Maternity leave is for the baby and the mother. It's for pre- and post-birth. You'll find that in cases of shared maternity/paternity leave, the father takes his leave second.

After approx 3 months (I don't know exactly, that's just a common sense guess) the chief benefit is to the baby, not the mother.

In no way is the first 3 months after having a baby about a woman choosing to do whatever she wants to do. On that basis, if no woman ever had a baby, the human race would end. Obviously that's not going to happen, but paid leave recognizes - DOESN'T REWARD, JUST RECOGNIZES - that women who have children pay a hefty price for it for the rest of their lives in many, many cases and in almost all cases, in the first months after childbirth.

Your post is extremely offensive in comparing your situation to women who have had babies.

It's a totally different thing, and in my humble opinion, a very valid thing to say "I don't want to be a wage slave for the rest of my life until I retire, I want to have a few months off to live a full life and pursue other interests, and I need money to survive while I do this". I don't think there's anything wrong that AT ALL, and this should be open to everyone, men and women, young and old, with and without children. The state shouldn't fund this though, it should be a private endeavor between employer and employee.

Take an unpaid sabbatical, I did. Or retrain and move into a career more compatible with lots of traveling. Comparing wanting a break to starting a family isn't really like for like, but I do see how it may seem unfair in a superficial way. I'm not sure you are thinking through the negatives - being passed over for promotion / being seen as the unreliable option / paying for it financially ie not being paid as much in the long run.. potential pitfalls everywhere, even in the most enlightened institutions..

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune well the equality act would disagree because it's only
Women who can get pregnant.

That line is getting really old. Does everyone in the united kingdom go around telling people they disagree with that they need help? Or is it just a mumsnet thing? 🤔What kind of help are we talking about exactly? Have you gotten said help before? Did the help help?

I mean this is like saying “I didn’t get sick leave off like Jerry did when when he got cancer.” I didn’t get cancer in the last 20 years. I feel entitled to a vacation.”

The fact is OP doesn’t see how entitled she sounds. She wants time off because she did not push a watermelon out her vagina, bled for six weeks, rubbed lanisol cream on her bleeding nipples all while caring for a newborn infant and waking up every 2-3 hours for six plus months to feed and change diapers and feels she’s earned herself a vacation for that like it’s some sort of prize for being child free or something.

It's also entirely your choice to do so, I think all holiday should be increased and maternity leave decreased

Agree with this

@ I said they could clearly offer enhanced leave to people who want it but they choose not to because they'd rather retain parents. But the OP was saying that she felt she should be entitled to it and I was explaining why she shouldn't be. So this is why I disagreed?

Oh yes, that would be just fantastic all round wouldn't it. Great way to make the workplace even more inaccessible to mothers, great way to foster good attachments between parent and child by ensuring they have to be shoved in childcare earlier.

Bravo. Brilliant idea.

No one saying it to people for disagreeing with them

Im saying it because this pretty benign and pretty fair post has offended you, that’s really quite strange and something you might want to unpick with a trained professional

Maternity leave is not a holiday! It's meant for a specific purpose so you can't have it if it's not for that purpose period.

I work in a team of 6, good but not amazing salary. No progression opportunities and we’re all paid the same.

Of the 5, in the last 5 years, 2 of them have had 3 years of maternity leave (6 months full pay, 3 months half, then accrued annual leave). The other 3 have had 2 each. So in that team of 6, in the last 5 years, there have been 12 years worth of maternity leave payments.

In that time, I’ve had no more than two weeks off at any given time. I’ve covered all the late nights, Christmases, never take leave during summer holidays, always picking up stuff when there’s sports days, nativity, school runs etc.

I’m now on reduced hours due to burnout and long-standing poor mental health, and am being constantly pressurised to return to full time to pick up the slack.

And then I see threads where hundreds of women are ridiculing the idea of anyone except mums getting any benefits from their employment, and I just…

I don’t know. I don’t want anyone else’s benefit removed but it sucks that so many people who’ve taken maternity leaves are so furious about the mere idea that a childless person could get a benefit in their own right, which would literally not impact them whatsoever.

That's an issue with your employer. They shouldn't be pressuring you. Don't get mad at your colleagues, direct your anger at the true cause which is an unsympathetic boss.

This has got to be a wind-up?

That's your employers fault for not providing cover. I'm sorry you feel burnt out but it's not the fault of women taking legitimate paid leave.

I can assure you OP that birthing and raising a baby over maternity leave is nowhere akin to leisure travel.

If you want to travel use annual leave or take a sabbatical.

It's quite sad to see how some people think it's okay to say that women shouldn't get paid leaves for maternity. Do you really believe people should be punished for having children which is quite natural and that's how humanity is surviving. Probably, you need to get to grips with reality!

Do you think people who can’t have children have no cause to be bitter? Do you not think you would feel a bit bitter if it happened to you?

It’s so hurtful when people who can’t have children are accused of being bitter by peop,e who have had children.

Honestly this is such a joke OP - you clearly have no idea what it’s like to take care of a baby. It’s in no way comparable to going travelling or volunteering. Mums need the time to recover from birth, bond with, care for, and feed their child. It’s 24/7 and there’s no other role like it. And not to mention if the mum has other mental or physical health issues as a result of having a baby

What happens if you take your paid sabbatical then have an unplanned pregnancy within a year?

We I've got to go to bed as I'm travelling to London at 6:30 tomorrow for the job I still thankfully have after having two children. This has been a huge eye opener on how women feel about women maintaining careers after having children though and in all honesty it's been quite shocking.

Its okay to be upset about it but to be actively bitter towards parents is pretty unkind. Other parents didn't cause your issues. Also how the fuck do you know whether other people have experienced multiple miscarriages, infertility, IVF...just because they have a child now doesn't mean they didn't experience something similar to get there. Don't be nasty.