To think that women without children should be able to take time off work too?

[Playfair]

Firstly I will say that I am 100% supportive of good maternity leave (and paternity / shared), and understand the importance of supporting women to maintain a career, care for children or whatever else they wish.

I also acknowledge that maintaining birth rates is critical for society. And that maternity leave is spent doing work in raising a child.

Reflecting on my company's good maternity policy (about 6 months paid) and also some other institutions that have announced paid time off for those undergoing fertility treatment, it leaves me wondering about those of us without children (by choice or otherwise).

I'm in my thirties and will never have children. I'd love to have a small amount of paid time off (in addition to usual annual leave) to do some lengthy travel for example. I can't see why we can't have access to something similar if you haven't used any maternity benefit by a certain point.

There would obviously be benefits for society & business from developing new skills, morale etc. As well as women in work contributing to economy and through taxation.

So,

YABU - Women who choose not to have children shouldn't be entitled to anything else

YANBU - Women should be able to claim a small amount of extra paid time off if they stay in a career and contribute to business and societies success

This is so out of touch and inflammatory I feel like OP and a couple of participants work for the Daily Mail and it’s a slow news week.

YANBU to suggest that people suffering from cancer or any other hideous illness should also be protected.
YANBU to suggest that carers are undervalued and deserve more support and protections.
YANBU to suggest that some work themselves into the grave and should be able to afford a better life/work balance.

YABU if you suggest protected characteristics are discriminatory.
YABU if you compare ML to being on holiday. YABU if you suggest that you should get free sabbaticals because some get ML!
YABU (and an awful human being) if you resent a woman for having maternity rights if she then loses her child.

Being on an 86k maternity leave is not representative of most women.
Most women spend the majority of their RTW wage on childcare and cannot afford pension payments whilst on reduced pay ML. (See highly publicised Pregnant Then Screwed campaign).
Travelling and having a jolly ole time on ML is not the experience of most women either.

ML is not horrible for everyone. However for most it is not a walk in the park either.
Some women suffer with PND or worse.
Some have babies that do not sleep through or babies with disabilities and additional needs.
Breastfeeding!
Some mothers do this alone and without any other safety net.
The majority of women experience physical alterations to their body during pregnancy that affect their day to day life for a prolonged period after birth.
Some women are left disabled or have permanent injury following pregnancy and childbirth.
All babies deserve the best possible start in life that we as a society can give them.

• that should read paid sabbaticals! It’s late!

Depends entirely on your company and purpose of sabbatical

Much like some companies only pay SMP and some pay enhanced

If someone has more free time or money by having no children, that is often ( but not always) their choice. If a woman wants to have children, and thereby, have less time, less money, higher stress levels outside of work, that is also heir choice. Women don't have children to serve the government, the world or statistics.

Reading some of the messages on here is reminiscent of my treatment within the workplace. I was belittled and demeaned as a single and childless person, scoffed at for saying i was busy outside of work. I was unfairly treated when i had carer demands/challenges of my own. My issues apparently didnt carry the same weight as those of a parent and therefore i was being 'unreasonable'.

It is also worth mentioning, as a single person the cost of a mortgage is difficult on one salary with bills etc. Holidays for a single person are expensive as is paying for a car and insurance etc. Especially on my less than stellar nhs pay. I certainly didn't reap the rewards of ita bulging bank balance in my lifetime, life would have been considerably easier with a second salary, but there are pros and cons to everything. Singledom, and childlessness are not always easy either, by choice or not, particularly given the judgement and assumptions that are frequently waved about.

I know nowhere that gives paid sabbaticals just to have a holiday. If you are an academic and doing research you may get a paid sabbatical, but really it is just another kind of work.

I don't agree with OP's idea for numerous reasons (if brought to its logical conclusion, it would actually be discriminatory towards working mums, and they face quite enough of that) but I absolutely agree with you.

I have two ivf babies now but I spent years wanting all the arduous privileges of motherhood. I always knew it was difficult, but it still gets to me even now when there is too much talk of hardships and not enough recognition of the benefits. I remember how badly I wanted mat leave. It is all so very unfair, so if I couldn't have a baby, a chance to just not have to be at work would have been great.

Whenever I see a post like this, I always think of the shitty deal infertile women get 💐

Its called bitterness.

Utterly ridiculous.

I had maternity leave (3 months pay) the rest I saved hard for. I also saved hard to take a year out to travel (aged 26). I had NO leave when both my parents died, or my best friend took her own life, or i divorced with 2 very young children. I take no leave for a disabled child (I now need to work part-time to cover hospital visits).

I'll be buggered if I'm made to feel bad for having 3 measly months per child. How should it work OP- if I've taken no leave for bereavement does that make my maternity leave okay? If I take no sick leave/ have no MH issues does that make mat leave okay? Why don't we start measuring how much time women have off for divorce/ hospital treatment too? This life isn't a competition- wind your neck in.

I think single women often end up caring for elderly parents, and in those circumstances it is reasonable to be able to take days for "elder care" - hospital visits, and so on.

I think there should be better leave for other significant life events such as genuine bereavement and caring for aging parents.

For travel you need to use the leave you have now.

I say this a woman who will never have children.

Oh and I get given extra ‘long service leave’ here in Australia (it used to be so you could visit mother England when it required a sailing voyage) but I believe I get less leave otherwise than those in the UK. 20 days annual leave plus bank holiday. My sick leave is 12 days per year and accrues but if you run out, bad luck. None of this taking six months stress leave on full pay here.

Well you could argue it was if the person was a smoker or was obese. Not that I believe that obviously but by your logic I don't see how it is any different.

No because the time off according to the original post, is for those women who haven't already had their paid 'holiday' on maternity leave!

Such a great holiday when you're up all through the night - all these years I've clearly been doing it wrong!!!

Is anyone else just wondering how you can be on a £115 salary and yet be so dim?
Dispelling the meritocracy myth right there.

You are very lucky to get any time off for fertility treatment. You usually have to use your holidays and it isn't a walk in the park to have IVF. Plus both my maternity leaves it has taken several months to recover from the births. It really isn't a holiday trying to learn to walk and pee after a c section or episiotomy!

I've worked for companies where you can buy extra holiday & I have bought extra holiday

I've worked for a company that offered a sabbatical for up to 3 months, but your job was not guaranteed to be there on your return

I have a friend who doesn't have children, but works in a school, so she gets all the school holidays off work

If you work shifts eg X on, then X off. You can plan so that you have more days off than most other people due to the shift pattern

People can do temporary or contract work, then take a long break

Early retirement

There are already plenty of options available to males & females

The last time I checked, developing cancer and having sick leave as a result wasn't a choice

The last time I checked an entire nation in the Uk does not have access to abortion so maternity leave as a result isn’t a choice for many cases.

Unnecessarily nasty. I have had years of IVF to get my DC. I made the choice to have children. Would you say the same to me? Having children is harder than I thought.

I know nowhere that gives paid sabbaticals just to have a holiday. If you are an academic and doing research you may get a paid sabbatical, but really it is just another kind of work.

Yes but surely that’s just another ‘choice’. Some may choose to work in academics so that’s what they use their sabbatical for. I chose not too so I should be entitled to my extended trip to the Maldives. (The OP’s logic, not mine).

I know nowhere that gives paid sabbaticals just to have a holiday

Yes there is, it's Australia, and it's called long service leave. The model could be used in the UK, and would stop beady-eyed threads like this.

I agree with this. I had to take 3 months off after having a hysterectomy. This meant any further sick leave I needed for the next 2 years would be on half pay as I'd taken my paid sick leave limit.
This was the Irish civil service.

I have also seen many women use huge amounts of their annual leave to look after elderly parents - take them to hospital appointments, meet with social workers etc

When a colleague sadly lost her mother during maternity leave she was allowed add bereavement leave onto her sml. When another colleague lost his father over the May Bank Holiday he had his compassionate leave reduced by a day because the bank Holiday counted.

This is the kind of thing people in the workplace should be raising. There is imbalance but its not because women get maternity leave, it's because of pettiness or lack.of compassion in other areas.

So they take a sabbatical? It’s available with most employers.

This is the kind of thing people in the workplace should be raising. There is imbalance but its not because women get maternity leave, it's because of pettiness or lack.of compassion in other areas.

Exactly

I voted yabu because so many women who have a baby find it hard work ,and tiring on top of often medical procedures and birthing a human .of 9 months sickness tiredness 😩 backache and so on. No holiday for them .we would not ask for equal leave with someone who has been on sick leave. No difference please don't be silly 😜

Yabu. You do realise these woman aren't having a holiday....they given birth or had a major operation and are looking after a screaming pooing baby. It's hard work and I know several mums who said they prefer to be at home.